320: [Rahkim Sabree] Overcoming Financial Trauma
Today, we're diving deep into the concept of financial trauma and how it impacts our decisions about money. Our guest, Rahkim Sabree, shares his refreshing take on financial choices, suggesting that instead of labeling them as “bad,” we should view them as the best decisions we could make at the time—because, let’s face it, hindsight is 20/20! We'll explore how experiences, both personal and generational, shape our relationship with finances, and Rahkim breaks down six sources of financial trauma that many of us might not even realize we’re dealing with. Plus, we’ll chat about his latest book, *Overcoming Financial Trauma*, which promises to be a game-changer in understanding how our past influences our financial futures. So grab your coffee, settle in, and let’s unpack the wild world of money with a sprinkle of humor and a dash of insight!
Chapters:
- 00:00 - Understanding Financial Decisions
- 03:09 - Understanding Financial Trauma
- 15:51 - Understanding Financial Trauma: The Six Sources
- 20:41 - Understanding Financial Trauma
- 26:13 - The Impact of Advertising on Consumer Behavior
- 34:21 - Navigating Financial Triggers and Personal Health
- 40:36 - Transitioning to Financial Trauma Awareness
- 45:32 - Exploring Financial Trauma and Capitalism
- 56:14 - Understanding Financial Trauma
- 59:17 - Transitioning to Professional Insights
More about Rahkim:
https://www.rahkimsabree.com/
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Disclaimer:
The information provided in this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. Please consult with a financial advisor before making any investment decisions.
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Episode 320
Transcript
So I've been on this new wave lately, and if you listen to recent interviews of mine, then you probably have heard me say this.
Speaker A:But I've been removing the phrase bad financial decisions from my vocabulary because I don't believe that people make bad financial decisions intentionally.
Speaker A:I think that people make what they feel like is the best decision for them in that moment.
Speaker A:And of course, in hindsight, we could look at any financial decision that we make and say that wasn't so great.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Or I would do something differently.
Speaker A:That said, I don't think that any decision that I've made around money has been a financial mistake.
Speaker B:Welcome everybody back to another exciting show of the about that Water podcast where we help the Samus generation build strong financial habits so that they can talk about money, enjoy their money, and spend their money with confidence.
Speaker B:So today I have one of the awesome guests that I haven't talked to you in such a long time.
Speaker B:Actually, I talked to him like regularly.
Speaker B: ly have him on the show since: Speaker B:The ultimate famous guy, Kim Sabri.
Speaker B:How you doing, Rakim?
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:I appreciate the glowing welcome because I.
Speaker B:Think last we had it, you were in the process of writing your second book at this time.
Speaker B:So now it's finally out, which is Overcoming Financial Traumas.
Speaker A:Yes, sir.
Speaker B:How's that been?
Speaker A:It's been good.
Speaker A:So this is my third full length book and this is my first traditionally published book.
Speaker A:So a little bit of a different landscape in terms of the expectations, the support, what marketing looks like, what deadlines look like, the whole thing.
Speaker A:But it was definitely a labor of love.
Speaker A:I had to crank out the 50,000 words in I think six months they gave me.
Speaker B:Jesus.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:But yes, we're done.
Speaker A:We're done writing.
Speaker A:The book is actually out next month, so we're in the printing phase.
Speaker A:Everything's been finalized.
Speaker A:The endorsements have come through.
Speaker A:I'm really excited about this book.
Speaker A:I think anybody who has read any of my previous books will notice significant growth in the writing process in the way that I talk about these concepts.
Speaker A:And anybody who has listened to me talk about financial trauma will also see significant growth as I've had to kind of dig deep into research and interdisciplinary fields to come to the conclusions and really expounding my perspective on financial trauma in this book.
Speaker A:So very, very excited about the work.
Speaker B:I'm excited to get a copy.
Speaker B:I'm glad that this one doesn't have any skin tones this time?
Speaker A:Well, I mean, we don't know right in printer this time, so we'll.
Speaker B:I know right at every time and maybe I might luck out, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:It might be like a shiny Pokemon, you know, saying it might come through.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker B:So before we even dive into all of this, what is your true definition of financial trauma?
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I like this question.
Speaker A:So financial trauma is any instance observed or experienced that has a negative impact on the way someone views, interacts with or, or believes about money.
Speaker B:Yeah, because I, I wanted to start off with that mostly because it kind of sets the tone for this conversation of, for those of other people that never heard of it, they kind of get an inkling about it, but rather hear it from the source itself.
Speaker B:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:You might as well.
Speaker B:Your name is synonymous with it at this point.
Speaker A:That was the goal.
Speaker A:That was the goal.
Speaker B:Yeah, because right now at the time of this recording, we going through a furlough and according to CNBC, they saying about 750,000 federal employees are actually furloughed.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And it's actually impacting 2, 2 million federal workforce that are out there.
Speaker B:So with that being said, you wrote an article talking about quiet cracking.
Speaker B:Can you talk about that a little bit more for the audience?
Speaker A:Yeah, that, that article was of, of the recent article that I've written, that article was the most viewed.
Speaker A:I forget where it sits right now, but definitely in the tens of thousands of views.
Speaker A:And I think the reason for that was because it was resonant with a lot of the people who were reading it.
Speaker A:So really quickly, you know, my.
Speaker A: hat doesn't know my story, in: Speaker A:And a lot of the environmental factors that existed within the workplace and ultimately impacted my mental health, my physical health, just the trajectory of what my career path would look like in the years to come had to do with what I now not define, but what I now call workplace financial trauma.
Speaker A:And so workplace financial trauma, it kind of speaks to the behavior or the reaction that individuals have to having to go out and engage in what I also refer to as economic warfare.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So you're going out and.
Speaker A:And you have to make money.
Speaker A:And so you have to deal with certain things, certain conditions, certain standards and culture and what have you in order for you to make money, in order for you to survive.
Speaker A:And so the phrase quiet cracking was a random phrase I guess somebody made up.
Speaker A:But it Spoke to an issue that has existed for a very long time.
Speaker A:And I think with the.
Speaker A: about firing my Boss back in: Speaker A: quiet cracking phenomenon in: Speaker A:I was fortunate to be able to do that.
Speaker A:But some people have to stay in an environment that is toxic, that is causing them harm physically, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, what have you, in order for them to secure that paycheck.
Speaker A:And so quiet cracking, I don't have the exact definition as it was defined, but loosely paraphrased, speaks to kind of like these feelings of desperation that individuals have to navigate in basically continuing to show up at a job that is causing them harm because they're worried about what income looks like or their ability to find another job.
Speaker A: very different than it did in: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A: In: Speaker A:It was definitely an employees market.
Speaker A:Now employers can kind of turn up the heat and in some ways be very abusive to the, the employees that they have because their employees don't really have much of a choice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like what tools should somebody have in their playbook to kind of help.
Speaker B:As you could say, deal with the pain or deal with that particular issue when they going through this.
Speaker A:I think having the vocabulary or the language to describe what is going on is a huge first step.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Even if you feel powerless in your ability to make a decision after realizing that, you know, this is the lay of the land, I think that so often we end up, when I say we, I'm talking about people in general end up in these cycles of questioning ourselves around, you know, whether or not we're bugging, Right.
Speaker A:Or am I the crazy one and you know, am I experiencing this by myself?
Speaker A:Am I overreacting?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so external variables and, you know, relationship partners, whether they be employers, whether they be co workers, friends, partners, what have.
Speaker A:You can then play on that and be like, oh, you know, that that whole concept of gaslighting, right.
Speaker A:Making you feel like you're crazy.
Speaker A:And so when people have the language to describe what it is that they're going through and recognize that they're not going through it by themselves, that other people are experiencing something very similar, it takes the focus off of, you know, what's wrong with me, and really places the focus on where it needs to be and what is the, the factors or the variables that are contributing to this experience occurring in many different people.
Speaker A:And so for the workplace specifically, I think giving people the vocabulary workplace financial trauma, describing what it is, what it looks like, what it feels like, is a big first step to helping people realize, okay, it's not just me now, what are the things that are within my span of control to do something about, and what are the things that are outside of my span of control to do something about?
Speaker A:And how can I focus on the things that I can control?
Speaker A:And so then that goes into your, your conversations around traditional budgeting, investing, you know, how do you prepare yourself for the exit if you decide you want to become an entrepreneur, what skill sets can you take in audit of that you can then monetize?
Speaker A:Or if you want to make a career pivot, what skill sets can you take an audit of in order to execute on this pivot effectively?
Speaker A:I think relationship a little bit different, right?
Speaker A:Because, you know, a relationship is a commitment, right?
Speaker A:It's a commitment on both sides, and you choose that person every single day, and you hope that that person chooses you as well.
Speaker A:When we add in the variable of finances and you said something that was, I think in, in terms of society, we kind of brush over very quickly and we don't spend a lot of time kind of assessing the why in this, but, you know, finances or issues around finances are one of the top, if not the top, causes for separation and relationships.
Speaker A:And so when there is a mix match, right, in terms of expectations, in terms of values, in terms of, you know, what is norms, what are our money stories, right?
Speaker A:And, you know, I don't want to be super cliche and, and, and sprinkle, you know, these financial therapy terms in here, but your money story from childhood and then and the narratives that you carry into adulthood, what it is that you tell yourself about money, what is that you believe about money's role in your life is going to, in, in some instances, maybe many instances clash with the money narrative and the money stories of your partner.
Speaker A:And so if you guys are not clear on what is the foundation that you're operating from, not what is the articulated foundation, right?
Speaker A:We can say we're on the same page in terms of wanting to save, in terms of wanting to invest, in terms of wanting to buy a house, have children, all the things that have financial implications.
Speaker A:But, but if we're not understanding what are the Unconscious drivers of our behaviors with money and our beliefs about money and the role of money, not only in our lives individually, but in our relationship collectively, then there's going to be a clash.
Speaker A:And I think that, you know, financial therapy is one of several options that people can pursue in an effort to solve that, Right?
Speaker A:Because again, financial therapy provides vocabulary, provides language to pinpoint.
Speaker A:This is what a money story is, right?
Speaker A:This is what your narrative looks like.
Speaker A:Is this something that you are in alignment with?
Speaker A:Is it something that your partner is in alignment with?
Speaker A:How do we move forward and get as close to alignment as possible?
Speaker A:Because sometimes it may not be possible for you to be in 100% cord.
Speaker A:And as you grow in your relationship, you know, the variables that surface or that will influence your money story, your money narrative, how you want to move forward may also change, right?
Speaker A:So I do this exercise specifically around financial trauma when I'm working with groups, particularly with groups of helping professionals, so individuals who work with other individuals, where I identify the six sources of financial trauma, and then I do a lifespan mapping of where you are right now backwards.
Speaker A:Where did you experience any of these six sources of financial trauma?
Speaker A:Um, and maybe you experienced one of the six sources of financial trauma in childhood, and then you experienced that same source again in your early, early adulthood.
Speaker A:But in childhood, you weren't in a position to do what you are or what you may be in a position to do in response to that source of financial trauma as an adult.
Speaker A:And so even though it's the same source, your reaction to that source can look different in a different stage in your life.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, just kind of protracting this outwardly into all matters of money, right?
Speaker A:Doesn't necessarily have to be related to financial trauma.
Speaker A:How you react or how you respond to financial stimuli, whether that contributes to anxiety, whether that contributes to stress, whether that contributes to ambition or.
Speaker A:Or what have.
Speaker A:You can look different in your 20s than it does in your 40s or your 60s or your 80s, right?
Speaker A:Because your needs are going to look different.
Speaker A:And so there's this constant need to calibrate and recalibrate with yourself and with your partner that I think.
Speaker A:Can act as, at the very least, a retardant to that random, you know, okay, I'm done.
Speaker A:Like, I can't handle this anymore.
Speaker A:But in the best case scenario, can act as kind of an indicator that, okay, we need to get back in sync and figure out how do we get as close to alignment as possible.
Speaker B:So that was a lot to you.
Speaker B:But one of the Things that caught me off guard was if you can go into detail a little bit about the six sources of financial trauma, because a lot of us, we might experience it, but don't even know where the sources come from.
Speaker B:And I want the person that's listening to this right now to kind of say, like, okay, this is something that I can take action on or at least do my homework on while I'm going through the day, whether or not, if I'm furloughed or not, or if I do have to go to work or if I'm going about life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't want to call it an oversimplification, but in the process of writing Overcoming Financial Trauma, I wanted to talk about financial trauma through several different lenses at the same time.
Speaker A:Because when we hear the word financial trauma or when some people hear the word financial trauma, it just feels very heavy and is also often associated with singularly financial hardship or poverty.
Speaker A:So the idea that I wanted to surface is that financial trauma is.
Speaker A:Agnostic to your income, your age, your race, like all of these variables that we often just kind of categorize in this little box and say, okay, if this is.
Speaker A:If you meet this criteria, if you check off these checks on the box, then you are experiencing financial trauma.
Speaker A:So some people will acknowledge.
Speaker A:Some people in, you know, this space will acknowledge the six sources.
Speaker A:Some people will say, oh, well, you're just, you're just taking one thing and you're spreading it out, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:For the, for the sake of the person that's listening.
Speaker A:The six sources of financial trauma are genetic or generational, Right?
Speaker A:So I talk about what are the stories and ideas about money that we pass down culturally from generation to generation.
Speaker A:And also what is the.
Speaker A:The, the epigenetic impact, right?
Speaker A:And so that is a biophysical.
Speaker A:The expression of genes that change based off of experiencing trauma and stress in a previous generation or in the present generation that goes through.
Speaker A:Onto the next generations.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so, funny enough, I seen a post not too long ago that.
Speaker A:And I didn't dig into it because I was just like, oh, this just validates my point.
Speaker A:But I seen a post on LinkedIn that talked about how.
Speaker A:Stress, I don't know if it was stress specifically, but basically how.
Speaker A:Certain variables can impact the sperm that a man has and can then have further impact on the child resulting from that sperm based off of change in the expression of DNA, which speaks to epigenetic studies.
Speaker A:So when we talk about epigenetics, and this is an emerging field, it speaks to the way that genes are expressed, not necessarily change.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so you might have a greater sensitivity to stress hormones like cortisol.
Speaker A:You might have greater or decreased like window resilience or tolerance for certain things based off of environmental factors that can contribute to mental health, that can contribute to what is the biochemical interactions that take place in your body.
Speaker A:So dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, you know, all of those things, cortisol.
Speaker A:And so when I talk about generational and genetic financial trauma, I'm not just talking about grandma doesn't trust banks and she talks to dad about not trusting banks, and then dad talks to me about not trusting banks.
Speaker A:And these are attitudes that can be changed with information.
Speaker A:I'm talking about these biological markers that are also traveling through generations based off of financial stress and or financial abuse that have occurred through external variables.
Speaker A:So that's number one, two is vicarious or observational.
Speaker A:So that's the second source of financial trauma is probably one of the ones that flies under the radar.
Speaker A:So I talk often about how our financial socialization will have us very early identify people in groups of the haves or the have nots.
Speaker A:And based off of, you know, that group of the have and the have nots, we see how individuals who are part of the have not groups are treated and many times are treated poorly.
Speaker A:And specifically speaking about a population of homeless individuals, we see how homelessness is criminalized, increasingly being criminalized.
Speaker A:We see how people who have less are often thought of or talked about as if they deserve less, as if they are useless eaters.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:As if they are not intelligent, as if they are.
Speaker A:Whatever, right?
Speaker A:You, you fill in the blank.
Speaker A:And we, we start learning this as early as childhood, right?
Speaker A:When we go into elementary school, when we go into.
Speaker A:The parks and we look at, you know, what kid has the, the Skechers and, or the Payless shoes versus, you know, right.
Speaker A:So like these are things that are part of our financial socialization that we carry into adulthood.
Speaker A:And so to me, it's not a surprise that individuals are living above their means to try and show off for their friends.
Speaker A:It's not, I think so often it has been categorized as a mix match in discipline and values and not so much in, in terms of what it is that we pick up through observation around how people who don't have money are treated.
Speaker A:So that vicarious financial trauma can have a profound impact on how we engage with money because of what we see or observe about people who don't have money or who have less money, even if we are a Part of that same group.
Speaker A:We don't want to identify that group.
Speaker A:So generational, genetic, vicarious or observational financial hardship or poverty is a third one.
Speaker A:That's the one that is most often associated with financial trauma.
Speaker A:So individuals who are, you know, actively going through it.
Speaker A:I don't think that I need to spend a lot of time on that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like that is your, your flagship.
Speaker A:When people talk about financial trauma, that's your flagship example.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Four is workplace or employment.
Speaker A:And so I talked about that briefly.
Speaker A:Like the workplace.
Speaker A:Financial trauma is the abuse, I'll use that word that you experience in the workplace.
Speaker A:And it can be kind of over or covert abuse.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You may have to engage in a practice of code switching.
Speaker A:In order to get the raise, get the promotion.
Speaker A:You may have to adopt a completely new identity in order for you to make money.
Speaker A:You may have to endure working in an environment that is toxic, that is harmful to your health in, in the various ways that that manifests physically, mentally, spiritually, in order for you to collect a paycheck.
Speaker A:And you may work in an environment where there's a wage gap, right.
Speaker A:Where, you know, white men are paid.
Speaker A:I forget what the dollar amount is in excess of black women.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:And everything in between where you may not be picked for the promotion over, you know, the guy that looks like the guy who's in charge.
Speaker A:And then I talk a little bit about what shaped corporate culture and the institution of slavery as one of those influencing factors.
Speaker A:So workplace unemployment trauma.
Speaker A:I do draw ties to the institution of slavery in this country.
Speaker A:And how pervasive that continues to be in today's world.
Speaker A:Number five is institutional or systemic financial trauma.
Speaker A:So I talk about the government's role in financial trauma.
Speaker A:I talk about the institution of financial services role in financial trauma.
Speaker A:So that's where your classic redlining, where your.
Speaker A:Predatory lending.
Speaker A:That's where you're.
Speaker A:I mean, we're seeing a lot of this in today's world with, you know, this current administration.
Speaker A:Doing crazy things, right?
Speaker A:Rolling back policies and, um, you know, even what has contributed to this government shutdown.
Speaker A:It's a, it's a strong example of institutional and systemic financial trauma.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The government is, is really abusing its power.
Speaker A:Um, and then the last one is.
Speaker A:Family, society and religious financial trauma.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So these are the expectations that your family might have of you based off of, you know, a certain income level, based off of a certain age level.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like they may expect.
Speaker A:Oh, you know, by this time you should.
Speaker A:The house.
Speaker A:By this time you should have the Wife and you should have the kids by the, oh, you're making this money, you should be giving back to the family.
Speaker A:And I lump that in the same category of societal norms and culture that says this is what you should be doing, this is where you should be.
Speaker A:And also religious.
Speaker A:And so I talk a little bit about tithing and, you know, the expectation to tithe and you know, how some of the religious values can influence the individual in terms of how they engage with money.
Speaker A:Not in the sense that I am downplaying the role of religion or trying to say that anybody's religion is wrong or that they shouldn't practice or anything like that, but from the perspective of encouraging them to be more introspective around how their values tied to the institution of religion can influence their behaviors when it comes to money, particularly if it is in direct opposition of wealth building practices.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like if you're tithing when you should be paying your light bill.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like that's a problem.
Speaker A:And so I talk a little bit about how religion has been weaponized, particularly against black people during the time of slavery.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:I pull from power nomics.
Speaker A:So Dr. Claude Anderson talks a little bit about this.
Speaker A:I pull from Post Traumatic slave syndrome.
Speaker A:So Dr. Joy DeGroy talks about this.
Speaker A:I pull from so many sources throughout the book, but I think that I cover the stick.
Speaker A:So that's generational, genetic, vicarious, observational, poverty, financial instability, workplace employment, institutional, systemic, and family, societal and religious.
Speaker B:Got them.
Speaker B:So because one of the things that stuck out the most to me out of those six was pretty much the workplace one.
Speaker B:And the reason why I'm bringing up both the relationship side of the house versus just breaking in the income is because all of this is relationship based.
Speaker B:And it's like how we actually view ourselves in society, going back to checking a box.
Speaker B:So it's like, this is actually really cool to kind of understand, like, where those traumas are actually coming from.
Speaker B:But there was something that you mentioned on Tiffany Grant's episode, and I thought it was pretty interesting, you guys, obviously her show is a lot shorter, so I did.
Speaker B:Didn't really get a chance to dive into it.
Speaker B:But you talked about really separating yourself from the system, about spending money in society, in society nowadays, and trying to choose to be part of the system or not.
Speaker B:Why is it important that we actually recognize that that is a problem?
Speaker B:And then secondly, to actually remove ourselves or try to separate ourselves from that.
Speaker A:Yeah, great question.
Speaker A:And just to provide a little bit more context around that conversation.
Speaker A:So when Tiffany and I were Talking, we got into the science of advertising and how basically like advertising is weaponizing our.
Speaker A:Nervous system against us, right?
Speaker A:So our nervous system is what protects us.
Speaker A:And I'm oversimplifying this in a very elementary way, but to, you know, to get to the point, our nervous system is what protects us.
Speaker A:It's what lets us know that something is wrong.
Speaker A:And so I talk about the evolutionary responses of fight, flight, freeze and fall, and how those nervous system responses that let us know, you know, whether or not an environment or a situation is dangerous or safe shows up in our money.
Speaker A:But we're not socialized to view money as a threat.
Speaker A:So many times because of our financial socialization, we are ignoring or overriding our body's bells and whistles.
Speaker A:That says, hey, there's a problem here.
Speaker A:I describe it as a smoke alarm or fire alarm, right?
Speaker A:When the fire alarm goes off when you're cooking a steak, right, you can say, hey, I'm not in danger, I'm cooking a steak.
Speaker A:And that's why the fire alarm's going off.
Speaker A:So it may startle you in the moment, but you're like, oh, you know, let me go and pull the battery out or let me just turn the fan on or whatever, right?
Speaker A:You're overriding your response to danger.
Speaker A:But if you are sleeping and the fire alarm goes off because there's actually a fire, it's letting you know, hey, there's a problem, you need to do something about this.
Speaker A:And either you, if you have in your capacity to put out the fire, you put out the fire, you call the fire department, you get out of the house.
Speaker A:Our nervous system is the fire alarm or the smoke alarm.
Speaker A:And many times when it comes to money, we are ignoring the smoke alarm.
Speaker A:So much so that, you know, we can no longer hear the chirp in the background, right?
Speaker A:It's when you don't change your battery.
Speaker A:I use that analogy in the book.
Speaker A:And funny enough, as I was writing the book, my smoke alarm's chirp was going off and I was like, oh, look, I need to change the battery.
Speaker A:But I use that as a culturally relevant example because so many of us can relate to it, right?
Speaker A:We don't notice the chirping until like we, we record the TikTok video or whatever and somebody's like, damn, you need to change them batteries.
Speaker A:Same thing applies with money.
Speaker A:And so Edward Bernays, who was in the nephew of Freud, you know, the big psychology guy, had trained.
Speaker A:Governments and agencies around advertising science that tie advertisements to emotions, right?
Speaker A:So we don't make buying decisions based off of logic.
Speaker A:We make buying decisions based off of our emotions.
Speaker A:And because we are constantly in a state of dysregulation and we're looking for ways to regulate our nervous system.
Speaker A:You think about the news cycles tied into the mass marketing efforts of advertising through social media, through traditional media.
Speaker A:Everywhere you look, there is some kind of signal telling you you need to buy this thing in order to be happier, better, loved, more attractive, slimmer, whatever, right?
Speaker A:Everywhere you look, you're being bombarded with messaging that tells you you need to spend money.
Speaker A:And because you recognize that you're in a dysregulated state, but you may not understand why you are dysregulated.
Speaker A:This messaging is giving you the solution that's saying, hey, if you get this thing, you'll feel better, right?
Speaker A:And so we're constantly engaged in this culture of consumerism that tells us if we spend the money, we will be or we will do better.
Speaker A:And then we spend the money and then we have to jump back right on the hamster wheel.
Speaker A:This is by design.
Speaker A:And so in that conversation with Tiffany, I was talking about, first of all, becoming aware of the fact that this is science that is being weaponized against us.
Speaker A:A dysregulated person is a profitable one.
Speaker A:And so as long as our media and government can keep us in a dysregulated state, we will continue to spend money and we will continue to engage in this culture of consumerism.
Speaker A:But if we can identify that we are dysregulated and then engage in practices that bring us closer to regulation, then we recognize that we don't necessarily need to spend as much as we think that we do.
Speaker A:And we can be intentional about how we respond to advertisements or how we remove ourselves from even being bombarded with the advertisements in the first place.
Speaker A:Place.
Speaker A:And I, I believe that it's getting increasingly more difficult to do so because of technology, right?
Speaker A:We are constantly attached to our phones, our tablets, now, watches, rings, sunglasses, you name it, that have notifications that constantly go off.
Speaker A:That's like, hey, hey, hey, look at me, look at me.
Speaker A:We know that the social media platforms reward content that keep you on platform, right?
Speaker A:So the goal is to keep you looking at your screen longer.
Speaker A:And while you are looking at your screen, there is greater opportunity for individuals to place advertisements in front of you.
Speaker A:This is all science, right?
Speaker A:This is all by design.
Speaker A:And so I talk about that very briefly in comparison to our nervous system and our evolutionary responses, because where somebody might engage in the flight response from responsibility from, you know, the stress or the danger of a situation like paying their credit card bill or paying their rent or whatever.
Speaker A:I think what is hallmark of the flight response in comparison to the freeze response is that you are constantly looking for ways to stay busy so you don't have to address the issue at hand.
Speaker A:Well, what better way to stay busy than to go out and spend money that you don't have that you should.
Speaker A:Right, the responsible thing.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:So that you can get the dopamine hit so that you can feel better in that moment.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so this goes into some of the narratives that, you know, we hear in the financial education space around people feeling like, oh, I deserve this, right, for retail therapy or I deserve a tree or whatever.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think that, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's tricky to talk to people about because on the one hand, yes, like, I agree, you do deserve.
Speaker A:But what are you taking away from in the process of pursuing what it is that you deserve and what are you trying to solve for by spending your money in this way?
Speaker A:And certainly I'm not immune to it, Right.
Speaker A:Like, I fall victim to this just like everybody else does.
Speaker A:But I think that when we understand what's happening, again, this talks about this idea of exposure, which is the first step in the framework that I introduced in this book.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:When we have language, when we have vocabulary, when we understand kind of what.
Speaker A:What is the rule of the game that we're playing right now, then we can make more informed and more intentional decisions that make financial education or financial literacy as it's, you know, been popularized, more effective.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because the issue is twofold.
Speaker A:It's that, you know, people need to learn how to navigate these financial systems by way of financial literacy, but also that these financial systems are weaponized against us in such a way that if we don't understand the weaponization piece, then we're going to engage in these financial systems.
Speaker A:We have all the financial literacy in the world, but now that we're being taught how to hold on to more money, we also have the ability to spend.
Speaker B:It's a gimmick.
Speaker B:Like, when can we get back to just trading rocks?
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:But I have to say, like, one of the things that got me even, like you said, is being on social platforms all the time and getting us to spend money in certain places.
Speaker B:But one of the things I've noticed that even my own actions, because I've noticed when I saw your.
Speaker B:When you started coming back on social, you started showing off that you going Back to the gym.
Speaker B:And I was like, man, this guy going to be buff.
Speaker B:I got to hurry up and get ready because I'm not sure he's going to show up at fincon.
Speaker B:I got to be ready.
Speaker B:So I started hitting my normal 150 push ups today just so I can, you know, we do the grip.
Speaker B:You saying like, yeah, it's all together.
Speaker B:But that's one of the things that I guess that comparison narrative.
Speaker B:And I guess we have to understand our own triggers as well on what triggers us to spend money.
Speaker B:And also the triggers that cause us to run away from money, going back to the nervous system.
Speaker B:So I have a lot to learn, but at least this time it didn't cost me money.
Speaker B:I could just sit here, do my own pushups.
Speaker B:I ain't got to go to the gym.
Speaker B:It's like you get your method man.
Speaker A:Going on over there.
Speaker B:How's that been, by the way?
Speaker B:Has it been helpful since you've been writing a book?
Speaker B:Everything was done.
Speaker A:You wanna focus on that, you know, so jumping into a little, little more personal, I guess, side of.
Speaker A:Of Rakim's life.
Speaker A:Last year was probably the most unhealthy year for me in the recent past.
Speaker A:I did not go to the gym at all.
Speaker A:Um, I was eating at Chick Fil A, like, regularly.
Speaker A:And if I wasn't eating at Chick Fil A, then I was eating at Shake Shack.
Speaker A:Cause I had just discovered Shake Shack.
Speaker A:And I was like, cougars are good.
Speaker A:The amount of calories in those foods, fast food in general, but in those particular foods were ridiculous.
Speaker A:And I wasn't paying attention because I didn't care.
Speaker A:The food made me feel good.
Speaker A:And, you know, you compound that with drinking alcohol.
Speaker A:You compound that with not working out.
Speaker A:You compound that with just having a sedentary lifestyle.
Speaker A:Not only did I gain weight, but my cholesterol skyrocketed.
Speaker A:And so I went and had my annual physical.
Speaker A:And my doctors like, what the hell is going on?
Speaker A:And I'm like, I have.
Speaker A:I. I can't explain.
Speaker A:And so fortunately, though, at the midpoint of last year, so June 1st, I decided I was going to stop drinking altogether.
Speaker A:Which was tough because I drank socially.
Speaker A:So anytime I would go out, you know, I would, you know, grab a beer or grab, you know, some kind of whiskey drink.
Speaker A:And I got to a point in my talking about this idea of masculinity and what it means to be a man.
Speaker A:I had gotten to this point in my manliness where I was very proud of being a whiskey drinker.
Speaker A:And like, I'm like, yeah, you know, I like this kind of whiskey and I could drink this whiskey ne.
Speaker A:Or I could drink this whiskey on rocks.
Speaker A:And you know, I don't, you know, I don't necessarily need to do the girly drinks, but I could do like margaritas and mojitos and all that other stuff.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:The alcohol was contributing to my cholesterol and I was like, you know, it's a net positive really, to not drink it because the recovery at this age is, is harder to rebound from and it's just, it's not beneficial to me.
Speaker A:So I stopped drinking.
Speaker A:June 1st hit a year this year, June 1st.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:And you know, it was a lot in the beginning it was hard, but it was not as hard as I thought it was going to be, right?
Speaker A:It's like, do you really drink alcohol?
Speaker A:And now so many places have, you know, mocktails and you know, you can supplement with tasty beverages or maybe not so tasty beverages that, that imitate drinking alcohol.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But I don't know what it was.
Speaker A:It was like some kind of like psychological barrier because I wanted to go to the gym all year.
Speaker A:Last year, like from, from January 1st on, I kept telling myself, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to go.
Speaker A:But I kept making excuses not to.
Speaker A:And from a money perspective, I paid for my gym membership the entire year.
Speaker A:I just didn't go.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:This year I was like, yeah, I can't do this again.
Speaker A:From a health perspective, not even just from a vanity perspective, from a health perspective, like, I need to be active.
Speaker A:I need to make some changes.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Started slow, January 1st this year.
Speaker A:That week I went maybe two or three times and I would just probably walk on a treadmill or whatever.
Speaker A:By the time February rolled around, I started lifting again.
Speaker A:And with the exception to maybe a week or two of sickness, I have been in the gym consistently at least three times a week from January 1st to presence.
Speaker A:And like, at least being like, those are the bad weeks.
Speaker A:Most weeks I'm in the gym five times or more a week.
Speaker A:And it's been great for my mental health.
Speaker A:It's been great for helping to regulate my nervous system.
Speaker A:It's been great for helping me to stay focused and, you know, establishing consistency and discipline.
Speaker A:It's been great for socialization.
Speaker A:So I don't necessarily go by myself.
Speaker A:I go with like a crew.
Speaker A:And so, you know, during that time period I could push myself.
Speaker A:I could do more because I have, you know, the support of other people who are like minded and it, you know, it helps me sleep better, it helps me relax.
Speaker A:Like there's so many benefits to just to working out and to lifting heavy.
Speaker A:But I've also, you know, started to, in this half of the year of really like we're in the last quarter, focus on how other ways of exercise can also exist and me not feel bad about not lifting heavy, right.
Speaker A:So, you know, stretching counts, yoga counts, walking counts, running counts, like all of these things that you can do in addition to or instead of lifting.
Speaker A:But lifting is my vice of choice when it comes to working out.
Speaker A:So I definitely like love picking up things and putting them down.
Speaker B:So for those of you who listening on the audio, you might have to check out the video feed.
Speaker B:Notice he filling out the whole frame here.
Speaker B:Solid dude.
Speaker B:It but man.
Speaker B:Rakim, we coming down to the third segment of the show, which is the futures.
Speaker B:We talked about health, we talked about the psycho, like the psychological side of the house as well.
Speaker B:Mostly dealing with the finance.
Speaker B:Where do you see.
Speaker B:People as they start to educate themselves about their triggers in the financial space when it comes to financial trauma?
Speaker A:This is a good question.
Speaker A:I see it as a double edged sword, if I'm going to be very honest with you.
Speaker A:Financial trauma is trending right now, right?
Speaker A:Financial psychology, financial therapy, all of this is trending.
Speaker A:So there are people who are jumping on the bandwagon because it sounds cool, it sounds sexy, it's new, it's novel, it's not your regular financial literacy content.
Speaker A:So great for the work that those of us who are committed to growing the field are doing, right?
Speaker A:Because we're getting a lot more exposure, we're getting a lot more of an opportunity to talk about these things.
Speaker A:Not so great for the people who are like trend jumpers, right?
Speaker A:And it's funny, like last night I was just kind of randomly thinking, I'm like, what happened to all the Forex people?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:And then, you know, and then the they turn into the Crypto Bros and the NFT Bros. And then the Trading Bros. And just like people jump ship.
Speaker A:And that's one thing that I'm very proud of.
Speaker A:Over the last, let's call it five years or so, you know, I've been singularly focused and dedicated to the work of financial trauma.
Speaker A:And of course, like, you know, there is more broad focus on financial therapy and growing, you know what that field looks like, I said on the board of Financial Therapy Association, Financial Counseling, working with the AfCPE and just kind of growing awareness around these designations and credentials and the education associated with being A part of these organizations.
Speaker A:But focusing on financial trauma has done quite a lot for me and my brand in that, you know, like you said earlier, it's synonymous with Rakim Sabri at this point.
Speaker A:But I do see people who will talk about financial trauma from a place of.
Speaker A:Being minimally informed, right.
Speaker A:Like they can regurgitate somebody else's definition around it, or they can tie in financial trauma to the sale of their financial product or service.
Speaker A:And you know, then you're, you're doing the same thing that, you know, I'm talking about undoing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So that's where I think it's dangerous as people learn more about how these psychological triggers and really, you know, I describe financial trauma as an embodied experience.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So how these embodied triggers show up and influence not just our behavior around money, but how we carry the trauma and the stress in our bodies.
Speaker A:You know, there, there's always some bad actor out there who's going to, you know, take advantage of people.
Speaker A:And, you know, that's something that I'm concerned about.
Speaker A:I think that there's some people who may do it inadvertently.
Speaker A:That's something that I'm concerned about.
Speaker A:But I think that the people who, who get the message, who hear the message and, you know, it's one of the reasons why I'm grateful to be one of the first to market and talking about financial trauma and defining and redefining and expanding the definition and giving, you know, cultural and research based and based or experience based nuance to the conversation is that if I could get to people first or if I could get to people in a meaningful way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So this is the benefit of working with a publisher like Wiley.
Speaker A:It's a respected publisher, it's academic publishers, not, you know, just Rakim decided to write a book in his basement and publish it on Amazon.
Speaker A:And that's not, you know, any shade to anybody who self publishes or any shade to the work that I've done in the past.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I still think Financially Irresponsible is a phenomenal book.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's great book.
Speaker A:But I also think that having the backing of an academic publisher in being able to distribute these thoughts and frameworks around financial trauma in a way that has not been talked about before for will help people to start putting puzzle pieces together and maybe deconstructing where the flaws in financial education exist, because I talk about that.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Deconstructing where the flaws and workplace culture exists, because I talk about that.
Speaker A:Where the flaws in religious and familial culture exists, because I talk about that where the flaws in our own behavior exist and really taking the blame, the shame and the guilt off of the individual and placing it back in.
Speaker A:In front of the institution.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so that is a critique of capitalism as our economic system and an exploitative one.
Speaker A:And how the legacy of exploitation that fuels capitalism, coming from a time where black people in particular were in bondage, still shows up and lives in the DNA of the, you know, the black people who are here as descendants of those individuals.
Speaker A:In talking about the legacy of some of these institutions and how they have built their wealth.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I talk about, you know, JP Morgan's public apology for owning banks that were.
Speaker A:That had slaves as assets, listed as assets on their books and how, you know, the massive wealth of this country was established on the back of.
Speaker A:On the backs of captured Africans that were enslaved.
Speaker A:So many things that kind of put these puzzle pieces together and then also project out into the future, like, what can we do differently?
Speaker A:How can we reimagine this?
Speaker A:You want to be a capitalist as a black, brown, yellow, green, pink person.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:But, like, this is what you can do with your money to be impactful as a part of society.
Speaker A:I talk about this idea of individualism versus collectivism.
Speaker A:I talk about, you know, why we should.
Speaker A:And the illusion, before I even get to that, the illusion of us having to do it by ourselves.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because you have these, you know, boys clubs and nepotism and, you know, the, the.
Speaker A:The people choose what is familiar to them, right?
Speaker A:And so if the dominant culture is a Eurocentric dominant culture in the workplace, and John Smith shows up, and Rakim Sabri shows up next to him, and they have the same qualifications.
Speaker A:And the CEO in charge is also, you know, John Smith.
Speaker A:He's going to choose John Smith.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And so understanding human psychology, the neuroscience, what's happening from a.
Speaker A:Perspective, all of these things, financial therapy.
Speaker A:I talk about Reiki.
Speaker A:Actually, I interview Steven Hughes.
Speaker A:He's the only person that I interviewed for this book.
Speaker A:I interviewed Steven Hughes.
Speaker A:He makes a parent, makes an appearance in the book, talking about Reiki, talking about.
Speaker A:Somatic healing practices, talking about ancestor veneration.
Speaker A:Talk about that in the book as well.
Speaker A:All of these things are geared towards helping people to heal.
Speaker A:And so, you know, in answering your question, I see if people do it the right way, I see the potential for healing to exist.
Speaker A:I see this as being an interruption.
Speaker A:And what is the status quo?
Speaker A:I see this as being.
Speaker A:An opportunity for us to reset.
Speaker A:I see this as being very revolutionary.
Speaker A:But, you know, people have to do something with it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I did the work, I wrote the book.
Speaker A:You know, there's, you know, other people can build on it if they want to.
Speaker A:I'm going to continue to build on it, but, you know, then other people can co opt and exploit it.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, one of the things that somebody very close to me had cautioned me of as I was writing this book was he says, rakim, when you put this book out into the world, it's no longer yours.
Speaker A:You need to understand that when you put this book out into the world, like people can do with it whatever they want to do with it.
Speaker A:And you need to, you know, make peace with that.
Speaker A:And so that, that's something that's like, okay, I did the work.
Speaker A:Like it's going out into the world.
Speaker A:You know, maybe it will inspire the next Rakim Sabri.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I try to usually take, when it comes to that approach to Buddhist approach, when they do the sand sculptures, well, the sand art.
Speaker B:And you always hear about it, every year some little kid gotta run out there and mess it up.
Speaker B:And all they can do is just sit there instead of turning over tables.
Speaker B:They just get right back down there, just fix it.
Speaker B:And then at the end of the day, they even just throw it away in the river anyway, once it's all done.
Speaker B:And I think that's one of the things that we miss out in society is the understanding of art.
Speaker B:Once we.
Speaker B:We're meant to create something and put it out there, how society sees it is the way how they want to say it.
Speaker B:Because it's like a baker, like, they bake the same things over and over again.
Speaker B:Like, man, you don't want to keep like your favorite beignet or something like that, like, this is yours, don't want to touch it.
Speaker B:And they even did an experiment with people who are bread makers, and people were making bread bowls out of them.
Speaker B:And the bread makers actually had to sit there and watch their creation being pretty much, in a sense, manhandled because.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker B:Mutilated just to make a bread bowl.
Speaker B:And I think that's a good mindset to have, especially as parents, because the people that are listening are actually part of the famous generation.
Speaker B:It's like you did your best to provide for your child, and what they take with that information is their experience and their takeaways.
Speaker B:Because I know that you even talked about your experience between you and your brother, dealing with your father.
Speaker B:And it's the exact same moment.
Speaker B:It's almost like it deep showing up in Your life, or at least every interview that I came across of yours, that this acceptance of how society views you in your line of work, has that actually.
Speaker B:Has that numbed you in a sense or just kind of provide you a sense of, hey, I'm doing something good here.
Speaker B:People are talking about me.
Speaker A:Oh, that's a really good question.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say numbed.
Speaker A:I'm still very sensitive to what people say and how they say it.
Speaker A:I think one of the benefits of being consistent is that I get to control the narrative.
Speaker A:Quite often.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:As long as I keep showing up and talking about, like, people.
Speaker A: People go back to: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And listen to an interview from me, like, yeah, you'll see growth in what I talk about, how I talk about how comfortable I am, you know, on video or how comfortable I am on audio.
Speaker A:But, like, I'm telling.
Speaker A:I'm telling the same stories, just with greater depth.
Speaker A:So, yeah, no, not numb, but I know who I am.
Speaker A:And I think as I get deeper into this, I learn more about who I am.
Speaker A:And so, you know, what can anybody really tell me about Rakim?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I'm saying it like, I'm putting it out there.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I like that.
Speaker B:So with that being said, is there anything that you want to say before we get to the final four questions of the show?
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, anybody who's listening definitely go grab you a copy of Overcoming Financial Trauma, available for pre order now through November 18th.
Speaker A:It releases on November 18th.
Speaker A:I would love to hit somebody's bestseller list.
Speaker A:So pre orders do matter, but if you want to wait until you get closer to getting the physical copy, then that's okay, too.
Speaker A:I think it's going to be a super impactful project.
Speaker A:I put a lot of work into it, and, yeah, I'm going to keep hyping it up until the next project and even beyond that.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:Well, all right.
Speaker B:So you ready for the final four questions?
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:So these final four questions are just to kind of do a quick, deep dive into you about your financial thoughts, really.
Speaker B:So question 1.
Speaker B:What does wealth mean to you?
Speaker A:I think the definition of wealth broadly is shifting to include more than just monetary success, especially with this, you know, trauma informed perspective on money.
Speaker A:I do know that more money does not necessarily equate to greater happiness.
Speaker A:It just creates more opportunity for you to do things that maybe make you happy.
Speaker A:So my definition at this moment of wealth is including physical, mental, and spiritual health.
Speaker A:In addition to, you know, having your basic needs met and, you know, maybe Enjoying a luxury here or there like that.
Speaker B:Number two, what was your worst money mistake?
Speaker A:So I've been on this new wave lately, and if you listen to recent interviews of mine, then you probably have heard me said, say this, but I've been removing the phrase bad financial decisions from my vocabulary because.
Speaker A:Because I don't believe that people make bad financial decisions intentionally.
Speaker A:I think that people make what they feel like is the best decision for them in that moment.
Speaker A:And of course, in hindsight, we could look at any financial decision that we make and say that was.
Speaker A:That wasn't so great.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or I would differently.
Speaker A:That said, I don't think that any decision that I've made around money has been a financial mistake.
Speaker A: , you know, leaving my job in: Speaker A: ovided, you leaving my job in: Speaker A:So, you know, take that with, you know, the grain of salt.
Speaker B:All right, which brings us to number three, then.
Speaker B:Is there a book that inspired your journey or changed your perspective?
Speaker A:There are several.
Speaker A:Yeah, there are several.
Speaker A:I definitely want to shout out Dr. Resma Minikim, who is a New York Times bestselling author of My Grandmother's Hands.
Speaker A:He also.
Speaker A:He has several other books out there, but he is.
Speaker A:He describes himself as.
Speaker A:A somatic abolitionist, I believe.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Before I started writing Overcoming Financial Trauma and just talking about financial trauma, I had several people in the trauma space or who are trauma aware, ask me if I knew who he was and say that our work is kind of similar.
Speaker A:So I picked up his book before I started writing Overcoming Financial Trauma, and his focus is on racialized trauma.
Speaker A:He talks about it from an embodied perspective.
Speaker A:But the.
Speaker A:I think there was one line in my grandmother's hands that changed the trajectory of what Overcoming Financial Trauma.
Speaker A:And the way that I talk about financial trauma looks forever.
Speaker A:And that was that trauma is not a psychological event exclusively.
Speaker A:It's a body event.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:When I understood that trauma is physical, it's a body bodily reaction and not just something that's in our head, changed the whole paradigm for me and how I view financial trauma, how I discuss financial trauma, how I discuss healing from financial trauma.
Speaker A:And so big shout out to Dr. Russell Manikim, huge fan of his work.
Speaker A:I've had the opportunity to talk to him several times.
Speaker A:In the process, he's actually read Overcoming financial trauma already.
Speaker A:So congrats.
Speaker A:Got his nod of approval and yeah, big shout out to him.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:Number four, what is your favorite dish to make?
Speaker A:Who?
Speaker A:Stew chicken.
Speaker A:Stew chicken is my favorite dish to make.
Speaker A:And what's funny about the way that I make stew chicken, you know, this might be blasphemy to some and, and maybe not to others.
Speaker A:I have had a very multicultural upbringing growing up in New York, of course, and so I love Dominican food, and I also love Jamaican food.
Speaker A:And Dominicans make stew chicken one way, and Jamaicans make brown stew chicken a very different way.
Speaker A:When I make stew chicken, I combine the Dominican and Jamaican approaches to stew chicken.
Speaker A:So my stew chicken is always brown, but.
Speaker A:It'S, it's, it's good.
Speaker A:Like, if I want like some serious comfort food, right.
Speaker A:I'm gonna make me some, some stew chicken.
Speaker A:And it's my favorite thing.
Speaker A:I mean, I, I make a lot of things, but that, that is my go to.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm sure people be like.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, they might be in one camp or another camp more than the other, but.
Speaker A:So really the, the thing is, I don't know if Jamaicans use sugar in their browning of the chicken, but the minute comes to do so, like, they, you know, they give the big pot, they put the oil, the oil gets hot, they put the, the white sugar in the oil, and then it caramelizes.
Speaker A:And then when it caramelizes, you throw the chicken on there and you brown the outside of the chicken with caramelized oil.
Speaker A:And that's when you go and you start cooking.
Speaker A:But like.
Speaker A:Everything after that is.
Speaker A:It'S more leaning to the Dominican side.
Speaker A:But I use like some of the Jamaican spices and seasonings and stuff like that in my food.
Speaker B:So as long as you like it.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:My mom likes it.
Speaker A:My sister likes this.
Speaker A:It's a fan favorite.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:All right, so this is the very last question of the show, which is where could people find out more about you?
Speaker A:Google.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But I do, I definitely want to direct people to my web site because that is the place that I can control.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So rockimsupri.com I am a speaker.
Speaker A:I'm a writer, author, financial therapist.
Speaker A:I work with organizations and mostly a train.
Speaker A:The trainer capacity.
Speaker A:I don't do as much one on one anymore.
Speaker A:Not because I don't love doing that work, but just the capacity is not there.
Speaker A:But occasionally I'll do one on one work.
Speaker A:I love writing.
Speaker A:There's, there's so much writing online that you can find between Substack my column with Forbes, I've written for probably every major publication that there is to write for.
Speaker A:But then of course, I love speaking.
Speaker A:And so there's a host of interviews that I've done on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple Pot.
Speaker A:Like you type in Rakim Sabri, some stuff is going to come up.
Speaker A:So anybody who wants to, like, really do a deep dive on my professional career can find information about me.
Speaker A:But I definitely want to point people to my website, rockhamfabri.com awesome.
Speaker B:Rakim, thank you so much for coming through on the show.
Speaker B:The person that's listening right now, if you got anything out of this and you made it this far, by all means, go ahead on and like.
Speaker B:And if you haven't already subscribed, definitely subscribe.
Speaker B:Share this with somebody else who's going through some tough times right now, especially with the furlough or they coming out of the furlough by the time this is coming out or even just switching jobs and just don't know what to do with themselves financially.
Speaker B:This is a great episode to kind of get them to restart.
Speaker B:And by all means, please make sure that remember that you only can put on one shoe at a time.
Speaker B:Don't hurt yourself trying to put onto.
Speaker B:All right, everybody, y' all be safe.
Speaker B:We out.
Speaker A:Peace.
