269: [Aja McClanahan] From Debt to Divorce: Overcoming Financial and Emotional Hurdles

:: 00:00

And I really think it was. I really think it was the lore. I think I just had to have a time where I spent so many years trying to be somebody else that I wasn't because I wanted to keep my relationship, my marriage. I really love being a wife and a mother, and I think it created this identity that really wasn't me. And I had to come out of that. And that is emotional trauma, too, to be like, wow. Everything I lived for the last 15 years, including my personality, my preferences, my likes, the way I thought I was, that really was a lie. So that. That's a lot. Fortunately, I did have a budget for I had.

:: 00:40

Welcome, everybody, back to another exciting show of the about that wallet podcast where we help you build strong financial habits. And today I have the awesome guest that has been paying off $120,000 in debt, who is also a blogger and eventually writing about personal finance content just to help people with their finances. Everyday people like you and I. But she also has great publications in Magnify money, yahoo. Finance, Experian bank rate, credit cards.com, mSN money, and so much more. And I do not want to hold her up because she has so much information to provide you all today, Aja McClanahan. How you doing today, Aja?

:: 01:27

I'm doing good. You make me sound so important. Thank you for that nice introduction.

:: 01:33

I mean, you are important. I mean, we here for purpose. And, you know, I love to hear about your story because I've read so much about you and listened to all your episodes. And I have to say that you have really inspired me to kind of continue on my journey, no matter what's going on in my life. And I just want to say thank you first.

:: 01:54

Well, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here and hopefully I can hear you well enough to answer your questions because I am the one who came unprepared, without headphones. But that's okay. Yeah, I'm glad to be here and hopefully you'll pull out of me whatever will be helpful and inspiring to your audience, too.

:: 02:20

Awesome. And one of the things in your, and you are actually in the process of restarting your journey to recovering from a lot of serious events in your life. Can you talk about that?

:: 02:32

Just to give people, like, a little bit, I'm going to go back a little bit further. So I came on the personal financing as a newbie blogger, like in 2014, almost ten years ago, after I had paid off $120,000 for worth of debt and I was married married at the time, I was a stay at home mom, and I used Dave Ramsey. And so I was like, because people were asking me, like, how did you do that? How did you do that? So I started a blog to kind of mass mentor people. And life after that was actually pretty good. I was able to stay home with my kids, live mortgage free, rent free, credit card free, like, no debt, and in the process was able to, like, travel. I also was, like, a momager. So I managed my kids career in acting and entertainment, which was super duper fun. They done, like, commercials, tv shows, voiceover, stuff like that. And so when I started blogging people, other publications started asking me to write for them as well. So that's how I got into personal finance writing as well, just kind of sharing my experience. And then I started getting into real estate investing, which was, oh, that was just like the cherry on top because I, I didn't think I would like it, but it actually became super fun for me. I started a short term rentals, and I started going into, like, rehabs and renovations and then interior design and decor, and life was really good, or so I thought. And so I want to get to this point of the major life event. So in 2019, I actually had to, I had to separate from my spouse, who no longer wanted to be married. And then I ended up filing for divorce. And as you know, the next year, 2020, kind of like the whole world went through this crazy right upheaval. And so I was actually going through a very, starting in 2020. Well, it really started in 2019, but it got really intense. In 2020, 2021, I went through an extremely contentious divorce. Like, really high conflict. You know, I don't want to go into a lot of details, but just, just think of, like, the worst case scenario where, you know, there is, like, restraining orders involved and there's, like, get protection and all that stuff. All that was a part of my story. So lots of stress. I I'm a religious or, you know, spiritual person. I'm a Christian, so I'm going to, you know, probably talk about God a lot during this time. But at the beginning of 2020, I felt like the Lord was telling me, don't work this year because I had so much emotional stuff to get over. And that's when Covid hit. And then nobody was really working or doing anything. And every, everybody was, like, living through this trauma. So I'm going through this divorce. There's delays. And then I was tasked with caring for my mom, who was diagnosed with, you know, something that basically she just wasn't able to live on her own or care for herself at all. She became, like, basically like a toddler. And then I had some conflicts with family members because they had different ideas about what COVID protocol should look like versus mine. And so you probably know about that. That time period really broke up families. And there's some people, we still don't have a relationship until this day. And that unfortunately affected, like, me having to care for my mom. I was dealing with parental alienation. So the person I was married to, really, they weren't that interested in seeing their kids. So I was, like, literally, like, 100% of the time with my kids. And I know this is long, but I'm going somewhere. I just want to set the steam.

:: 06:16

For what I was going through.

:: 06:20

And then there was a point during all of this where I feel like the Lord was like, don't try to fight about anything. Just walk away from everything in the divorce process. And I was just like, that was my life's work. I had worked so hard to get debt free, to bring real estate into the relationship, to build up. At the time, I didn't know that there was like, you know, if you're a stay at home mom, you can make retirement preparations for yourself. I didn't know that. So we put all the money in his 401k. So there was 400 401k fund, the potential to get a pension, all this stuff that was, like, on the table, it wasn't, you know, this is not like a millionaire divorce, but it wasn't nothing either. And I. That was my whole. That was like, my. I mean, not. It was like a big part of my identity. I was a personal finance writer. I inspired people on how to win, you know, giving methods and strategies and tactics on how to win financially. And then I was faced with the prospect of, you're going to be broke again. And I. That was like, that was a turning point for me. And I eventually said, okay, you know, if it's going to make this process go faster, if it's going to stop the harassment and all of the kind of, like, turmoil and contention I was going through at the time, I was like, lord, I'm going to trust you. I'm going to trust you. And that's what I did. So that I wanted to just give a picture of everything that I was contending with because major life events that might mean different things to different people. So I just want to kind of, like, explain everything I went through.

:: 08:08

No, that is quite a bit. And first, I do want to say, you know, that had to be a lot, not just looking at the realization of where you're going to be ending up, but also your feelings. And I do want to acknowledge that, you know, going through that process. And I'm sure it had to be a tough thing emotionally, not just financially that you've been going through, also be part of that sandwich generation where you taking care of your kids and also your parent at the same time. So I do want to commend you for staying strong through that process.

:: 08:42

That was really, really tough because I'm contending with all of these things. And I had some close friends, but I was, I would say a lot of the time I was alone because I didn't have the family I could talk to that I usually had because of fallout. And I even had some friends who were, you know, maybe they thought they, we just haven't did it for stuff up opinion of, you know, whether or not you should get divorced, how you should act during divorce. And it was really weird. I heard these, I heard people say, like, you know, when you go through something bad, you will find out who your real friends are. And I would think that is, I would be like, that's so, like self centered to think like, obviously no one's going to leave you when you're your toughest place. But that's exactly what happened to me. And I was really different people for different reasons, just kind of, you know, kind of left my life. And I really think it was. I really think it was the lore. I think I just had to have a time where I spent so many years trying to be somebody else that I wasn't because I wanted to keep my relationship, my marriage. I really love being a wife and a mother. And I think it created this identity that really wasn't me. And I had to come out of that. And that is, that is emotional trauma, too. To be like, wow. Everything I live for the last 50 years, including my personality, my preferences, my likes, the way I thought I was, that really was a lie. So that's a lot. All right. So going through the emotional aspect, I actually was fortunate enough to, I did have a budget for therapy and at one time I had like three therapists. And I want to mention this part because I think it's really important for somebody who may not know about this. It was just really by the grace of God that I kind of stumbled into this aspect, but actually had like a behavioral, I think they call them behavioral, cognitive behavioral therapist to work through the trauma, the hurt, the pain and all that. But then I also had a domestic violence counselor who helps you understand what abusive behavior is because that was actually a dynamic in my relationship, domestic violence and abuse. And so with your regular therapist, maybe you're working through, like, processing your feelings. Forgiveness has to definitely be a part of that process, but you also have to have boundaries. So, you know, again, I am. You know, I'm. I'm a Christian, so I had to process this whole thing of, how do you for give somebody, you know, the Bible calls you to forgive someone, to forgive. Forgive people, but you don't have to trust them.

:: 11:30

Yes.

:: 11:31

And so I had to sort that out while also being aware of safety matters. So I think that cocktail of, like, having therapy, you know, throughout this time, fortunately, I never stopped going to church. I never stopped praying at some really close friends where we would have, like, regular prayer sessions. And though I did suffer emotionally, I feel like the Lord was really heavy on the rest. He's like, take the time that you need. Don't try to do anything strenuous. Don't. You know, the work was off the table for me. I had even gotten. I was pretty chubby, too, and. But I even felt like the Lord was like, you can work out, but don't do anything strange. Strange. It's like, you got to get out here, be in the dating and all that. I wasn't dating. I chose not to date while I was going through my divorce. And, you know, even if I was, you know, I just didn't feel comfortable doing that because in my mind, I was still married. But it was really good for me emotionally. So there was a number of things that I had to put in place. It wasn't just something that fell in my head. It was something I had to be really intentional about. Like, I really had to trust God. He's like, I need you to, like, sat down. And even in the midst of not, like, having the income I was used to having, you know, property income, working income, he still took care of me and my kids so well, even when I was resting, even when I was, you know, taking time, I mean, there would be sometimes where I would just be doordash and donuts, and I will be eating donuts. And that was a part of my therapy. Yes, I did get chubby. I did.

:: 13:18

Okay, the donuts. Donuts.

:: 13:20

Love it. But I did need to. I know it's not so cliche, like, focus on yourself, girl. But there, if you have ever been, and I hate to use this word because it is overused, but this is something that has been assessed by professionals. I was in a long term abusive relationship, and some people use that word flippantly. It doesn't have any meaning. Everyone's a narcissist, everybody's abusive. But there are some cases where that happens. And when that is the case, you have to take some time healing your mind, or else you're going to just go back into the same situation. And I knew I couldn't have that for the sake of my children, for the sake of my finances. So again, I'm very long winded. I hope that gave you the full picture. It's your short question.

:: 14:10

No, it's really good. Because a lot of times we don't hear what's going on behind the scenes of when people are going through things. All we see and what we decide to share with the world are the good things and the breakthroughs. And some people be like, we didn't even know you were going through something. To call it a breakthrough. So for you to be transparent in your process while you're going through this is really good, I think. Not just for you to get things out off your chest, but also for the community from the financial standpoint, because we all need this. And money is just one piece of the puzzle of the holistic approach when it comes to personal finance. And one of the things that I do like that you did was continuing to have faith and not give up. And also with you moving on to a whole nother country, not alone, another state with everybody in tow, that is amazing feat of its own. So when it comes to the financial piece of saving during that divorce process, what did that look like and how much money do you feel like you think you really needed? Well, actually, do you feel like you had enough to do everything you did financially?

:: 15:38

No. I'm going to be transparent. That credit cards have definitely been part of my healing process as well.

:: 15:43

Okay.

:: 15:45

However, I will say that again, I had some unique circumstances wherever. How do I say. So I was, you know, I wasn't working income wise, and then I was not only cut off from all the, like, health insurance, finances, like, in an abrupt, pretty abusive manner, but I was also, like, targeted to be, like, financially ruined. So it really was like, me, like, fighting, having my kids and my mom on one side and me, like, fighting. So I just. I had a grace with myself because I knew that what I was doing was investing into myself. And again, I don't recommend you all go on your own journey. I do not recommend this. I have a good record of paying off what I owe. That's just always been a part of my story, and I've always had strategies to figure things out. So, yeah, money. There was a deficit, and in some cases, I did bridge that gap with credit cards. But then there were other cases where I did have available funds. Fortunately, I was in the middle of selling a house that the state of Illinois. Illinois is, like, a community property state, but because of, like, some inheritance laws and some loopholes, I was able to use some of that to finance some things. And I did have, like, a little bit of income coming in from, like, other really small, like, just kind of weird things. Like, I actually. This is one of the weirdest things. I had an editor who would just, like, deposit money in my account, and I'd be like, hey, you deposited money. I haven't done any work for you. And he'd be like, oh, write three articles, and then we'll call it even. And I'm like, okay. So he. And I've never met this man, never talked to this man. I'm like, I don't know if he's an angel or what. So, like. And I've had other instances of just, you know, strange things happening. I had this, like, a kind of a court case, a claim situation with the state of Illinois, and that I got, like, a windfall of money. So I had a lot of weird one off situations where the Lord's like, let me just make it rain for you. And so I really was living from one miracle to the next. It definitely was not all credit cards. There was some credit card usage. But I, again, through this whole process, I haven't used money in the most efficient way that I usually am used to, but I got really gung ho about taking care of my mental state. That was so important to me because I looked at people around me in the same situation who didn't take time off. They rushed right into a relationship. And when I tell you the results were disastrous from letting men in their home that should have never been there to sidetracking whatever dream or whatever. And I just. I thought the stakes were way too high. So I'm like, you know what? Again, I'm not that person who will ever tell you I'm debt free. You know, I'm Dave Ramsey. But this was, like, such an emergent, urgent situation for me. I was like, my mind is the only thing that will get me out of this and protect my kids and my mother, because I was like, if this ship sinks, we're all going down.

:: 19:20

Yeah.

:: 19:22

So. And I'm fully, fully confident like, very soon I'll be posting like, hey, everybody, all the dead is gone. I have some things that, you know, some progress I've been making. But again, everyone, you have your own journey, you guys, the key is to have your own relationship with God because he's the one who made you. He's been to the beginning and the end of your life. He knows how to do it. So listen. Listen to him and he'll show you exactly what to do.

:: 19:56

Yeah. So one of the questions I might have to ask is what a prenup been helpful during this process?

:: 20:07

That is a good question. So how do I answer that? Because I do go, I actually, I would like to get married again. I like to have companionship and I always think about, like, would I do a prenup? In this case, a prenup could actually protect everyone. So from my understanding, if I had gotten married and done a prenup that says in the case of any abuse or infidelity, the other partner forfeits all or percentage of shared property or something like that, that would have been helpful for me because I was a victim of both of those things. And so because I was dealing with someone who just had some real issues, I just end up forfeiting everything and just walking away from everything because the mental strain wasn't, wasn't worth it. So if the prenup was fashioned in such a way that also, you know, protected the other party and me, if anyone ever got up and decided, like, I don't want to be married anymore, which is basically, you know, what happened to me, or they, they don't want to be married according to the same terms that you agree upon what marriage looks like. So, yes, in that case, if there is protective clauses for both parties, then yes, I think it could have been. Would I go into my next relationship like that? I'm not sure because I'm, at this point, I am, I'm definitely not financially destitute. And I think the, depending on where you are, the laws are such that whatever I have is going to go to my existing kids anyway. And there's some like, little legal things that you can do to fix, you know, just change things if you have more kids or whatever. But yeah, I'd have to think about what that would look like. Finding someone who, I think that's a smart thing. If you encounter someone who's like, I want to give you such an assurance that I even want to protect you against my future self, should I just like, start acting crazy? And that's for men and women. And to me, that that can be a loving way, because even though you're like, I plan to be with you for the rest of my life, but I could fall and bump my head and turn to a crazy person, and I want to protect you from that, what if. And I think that's okay to me, I think that should be the purpose of a prenup, not that you guys wish that each other is financially destitute in the case of it doesn't work out. So if it's done with the right purpose, I'm for it.

:: 22:46

Okay, perfect. You know, for some of the people who are going through this, and I do appreciate you, again, you know, willing to share your story. How, I guess you could say what would be some good takeaways moving forward, like, post divorce? What are some great things that people can do or that you felt that were helpful for you to get through all of it.

:: 23:14

So for me, honestly, I'm going to say my relationship with God and, you know, the God of the Holy Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because those were rules, are the rules and regulations and the precepts and. And the laws and things in there are designed to protect you and also to keep you building character and integrity through hardship. And so, again, I've had friends who go through, who've gone through something similar. And I think one of the most dangerous things you can fall into is becoming your own God, trying to justify your own self, being so disillusioned by, you know, or in disappointed when your relationship doesn't work out, even if the other person was 100% at fault, it doesn't serve you to be bitter, angry, upset. That will keep you in a trap. So I would say that your mental and emotional health is number one. And I pulled on what to do from the Bible. I had to meditate scriptures about forgiveness. There were times where I, the Lord will be what even does? Because people are like, yeah, I forgive them. And then they'll go and tell somebody all the business, everything they did. Well, love is patient. Love is kind, that whole thing. It also said, love keeps no record of wrong done to it. Why are you talking about it? Why are you thinking about that? So to get a full understanding of what forgiveness is, if you make up those guidelines for yourself, you'll be lying to yourself, saying, I forgave so and so while you, you know, you know, hoping that so and so dies, and that's not forgiveness. So I would say having that plumb line where you are not your own God and judging how you're acting in this situation, because there will be times I would be like, I can turn the screws on this person. I had the. I had the power. Even at one point, my lawyers were like, what is wrong with you? You know, we are here working for you. You're doing. You have the chance to do that. They're like, we could do this, and you would. We know, judge so and so. They're going to be on your side. And. And the Holy Spirit wouldn't let me. I would be like, I'm not here for that. Because love is. Love is not without risk. Is that really love? If you're like, I know we're together because you can't never get away from me. That's. That's not love. You know, that's. So I had to really make sure that state of my love walk, because your love walk affects your faith walk, and your faith walk affects your finances. So I can't be out here being bitter and mad and angry, even though I would be very justified according to the world standards. People will be like, oh, yeah, girl, you. Yeah, what he did. But that I'm called to a higher standard, and I believe that gives me even a higher, just a higher form of deliverance and liberation where, you know, I just celebrated yesterday, actually, three years divorce in this month, five years single. And I'm very happy at what the person I become through this process. And I just want to be clear, like, I am not happy that I got divorced. That was such a heartbreaking, heart wrenching thing that, again, I love being a wife and a mother. I did not want this, but when I saw everything that was, I finally saw with clear. A clear head what I was going through. I'm like, I don't want my children to repeat this cycle. And so the person I become is not because I get to go traveling and dancing around. Those are perks and those are pluses. And it's not me celebrating that I'm divorced, but it's more of a testament of the happiness that I can now feel because I did something that did take, like, um, took a lot of bravery and courage. I didn't. I. At first, I was like, well, you know what? I can just handle this. We'll each have our own lives. Finances will stay in order, you know, but that. That's a lie. That. That never works out. So I can't even remember the question. I just be talking and talking and talking.

:: 27:46

No, you could.

:: 27:49

Hopefully that helps somebody. Don't be bitter. Take care of your mental first, because out of your mental and emotional will spring everything else. The Bible says, guard your heart with all diligence, for out of it flow the issues of life. So that's doesn't sound like financial advice, but trust me, it definitely carries over to your money.

:: 28:11

Early on, you're talking about boundaries. What were those boundaries that you were talking about far as dealing with people?

:: 28:19

I guess financial boundaries, they kind of, they kind of, I guess, are interwoven with just, like, regular boundaries that you have. Like, so during this time, I did have to have some financial boundaries. Like, for example, with my kids. You know, sometimes they wanted things. And I never tell my kids, no, I've never been that mom. But I would be like, well, you know what? If we can't get it now, let's figure out how to get it later. Let's believe God. Let's do something creative. Let's do something creative. And so, yeah, I would say, you know, there were some things I definitely wanted to do, but I had to put on hold because I just wanted to be wise and be, like, a good steward of what I was interested with. So just being, you know, taking care of your needs that you have, but balancing it against, like, some of the dreams, because, you know, I had this revelation. I'm like, I'm free. I could do anything, but you're you. Yeah, you can do anything, but you can't do everything right. So there were some times where I had to pick and choose, but overall, I'm really. I'm actually really pleased with how. How, again, I feel like the Lord just really took care of me and my kids, where we've been able to travel. I have been able to buy a home here in Puerto Rico. I'm getting a condo built in dominican republic. So all the Lord. So the financial boundary, I actually would call it, like, actually kind of like an epiphany or a time period where I actually end up taking off the financial limits, if that makes sense, where there are some things where I'm like, well, no, that's out of reach. And instead of thinking, like, I had to scrape and scrounge and be destitute to get it, I feel like the holy spirit would take me to a path. Like, no, if you want that, that doesn't mean that you have to be poor in one area. There's a wise way to do it. So, yes, there was boundary boundaries, but it was because it was taking me down another financial path that eventually would. Would lead to abundance. I feel like that if that makes sense. I don't know.

:: 30:39

It does. And one last thing before we get to the features, such as the third segment, there was something called lat fish that you mentioned, and I was like, what is that? That is hilarious. Can you explain that a little bit?

:: 30:53

Yeah, maybe I should get that copy written or something. So, you know, I. I am, you know, in the Caribbean here, and I do a little island hopping. I like to go to doctor. I've been to Cuba many times, and I'm here in Puerto Rico, and when people meet me, they're like, oh, my goodness. I definitely know that you're, like, Latina from somewhere. And I'm like, oh, I did black girl with roots from Mississippi, dad's family from Mississippi, my mom's from New Orleans. And I had some guys be disappointed. They're like, oh, I didn't want you. I wanted a Latina. I'm not Latina. I'm just not. But I've learned Spanish since I've been here. And so being on the dating app. Yes. I go on the dating apps. People will be like, some guys who, the passport roles and stuff, they're looking for a certain kind of woman, and they figure out I'm just like, black women from Chicago. They're like, oh, no. So, yeah, I just. I call it lap fishing, because I, you know, I go and dance and everything. But as you know, the same racial mixing that happens in places in Latin America happened in the United States. So, you know, but I've only just disappointed a small amount of people. Other people have been impressed. They're like, oh, wow.

:: 32:18

Yeah. I mean, I just thought about it. Yeah, it was pretty cool term. I was like, what is this new term?

:: 32:25

Yeah. And one guy called me a negro Tino. Like, negro, which I'm not offended. Like, it's. I just think it's funny because I think there's actually, you know, there's a lot of people who. Black people. People think that black people don't travel, don't learn languages, and that's. That's just not true anymore. So I'm here for it, you know?

:: 32:50

Yeah. But unlike every other culture does it, too. So I'm like, why can't the rest of us?

:: 32:55

Yeah. And it's funny that I was in Europe this summer, and I interacted with a lot of, like, Arabs and Africans, and some of them are on their fourth and fifth language. And so, you know, why not? If they can do it, why not us?

:: 33:11

Exactly. All right. Third segment of the show, which is the futures for you. So what skills or habits that you feel will take you to that next level?

:: 33:26

I would say that resilience, for sure. Like, I have gone through a career of, you know, freelance writing, kind of like thin fluid, all this stuff, and I've had a lot of rejection. I've had people fire me. I've had people be like, we don't want to work with you anymore. And I don't know if I'm dense or what, but I just, you know, I'll come back around and be like, hey, remember me? I've done that before. And sometimes people don't respond. And some people are like, sure, okay. So I think resilience, it's really hard for me to take no for answer and other skills just being, obviously, discipline with, like, time management. And I think above all, this next year will be about me doing systems right, because being an online influencer or personality or presence, a lot of us know how to do that. We can show up and get on the mic, but how can you put systems in place so that you're making money even when you don't show up, even when you don't get on the mic? So that's what I'm working on to try to systematize and make what I have into a business rather than something that's just centered on me as the main person personality. So that's, again, another long winded answer for your short question.

:: 34:52

No. Perfect. Is there anything else that you want to leave the audience today with before we go to the final four questions?

:: 35:00

I would just say, whatever you're going through, don't give up. If you keep going, you're going to reach your breakthrough.

:: 35:11

Perfect. All right, you ready for the final four?

:: 35:14

What's that?

:: 35:15

Final four questions.

:: 35:17

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm going to be snappy. I'm going to be snappy. Okay.

:: 35:25

All right. What was number one? What does wealth mean to you?

:: 35:31

Wealth to me means having control over your time and your energy and resources to live the life that you want to live.

:: 35:43

Right. Number two, what was your worst money mistake?

:: 35:48

That one's hard for me because I will say again, God is so good. You. All that stuff that I said was a bad idea ended up working out for my good. I mean, there's been times that I wasted money, but I'm the kind of person who I will pray and I'll be like, lord, I'm sorry. Give me another chance, and it usually gets fixed. So that's my answer. Like, I've had lots of money mistakes, but I've always been able to bounce back from them. I just can't think of, like, a big, huge thing because fortunately, I've been shielded from a lot of the effects.

:: 36:21

Perfect. Number three, what is your favorite financial book or non financial book?

:: 36:31

I'm going to go with the financial book because my non financial books are children's literature. Me and my daughters do read aloud, so my favorite number one financial book. And some of y'all might get mad. I don't care. It's total money makeover by Dave Ramsey fan.

:: 36:52

I mean, he did help out a lot of people. You can't, you know, deny it. So, I mean, if it works, I.

:: 36:57

Use the same system. So, yeah.

:: 37:00

Number four, what is your favorite dish to make?

:: 37:05

Whoa. I am a huge meat eater and really, like anything ribs, like in the slow cooker, I've done them in the oven with like, asian style ginger and all that. Had them on the grill. So I'm going to go with short ribs, anything short ribs.

:: 37:24

Perfect. All right, now, this is the very last question of the whole show, which is, where could people find out more about you?

:: 37:35

So I, after many years of. I don't know what's been going on, but I got my website back. So principlesofincrease.com, you can sign up for my mail, email list there for updates. I have a YouTube channel, so principles of increase tv. That's like the tag or something. I think if you put principles of increase in there, you'll find it. And then I'm also on Instagram. Principles of increase.

:: 38:00

Okay. And I do want to add on that you also have Amazon store, so you can get all three of her books. The three books are real estate by faith, how a mother should talk about money with her daughter and manage your money to become debt free. Perfect.

:: 38:17

Thank you for adding that. I appreciate that.

:: 38:20

Thank you so much, Aja McClanahan, for coming through, ensuring it wisdom, sharing the boundaries, and also being personal and transparent with your process of divorce, overcoming a divorce, and, you know, making life for your family in so many different aspects. And I'm definitely hoping that this helped, this episode helped out so many other people that are listening. And I just wish you all the best and continued success. And if you guys found this, any, any part of this particular episode beneficial, please make sure you share this episode. Like subscribe, share, and all the fun stuff. Y'all know what to do. All right, everybody, thank you so much for having a good time with me. Thank you so much again, Aja and y'all have a great day. We out peace. And her name is Aja McClanahan. How you doing today? Did I butcher it?

:: 39:22

Aja McClanahan.

:: 39:24

All right, let me do it again.

:: 39:26

I think you said something about my. I'm so sorry.

:: 39:31

Okay, I'll try to yell into this mic. You know, welcome. No problem. I got so many edits I gotta do. All right, well, thank you, Aja, for so much. Did I say her? Azer Asia. I did say it, right?

:: 39:51

Say it again.

:: 39:51

Oh, is it right?

:: 39:54

Yes. I thought you were trying to pronounce my last name. Go ahead, you can do it again. Let me be quiet, okay.