288: [Dexter Zhuang] Coast Fire, Flexibility, and Financial Independence
In this episode of About That Wallet, host Anthony Weaver chats with Dexter Zhuang, a Coast FIRE enthusiast who traded his tech career in San Francisco for a life of financial freedom with his wife. They dive into how to sync your money goals with what really matters to you and how cash is just a tool for living your best life.
Dexter shares his journey, from money talks with his wife to figuring out joint finances across countries. Get ready for some real talk on self-awareness in financial planning and tips for discussing money with your partner.
As the convo rolls on, Dexter highlights the need for flexibility in your financial choices, especially if you're eyeing a move abroad. He dishes out practical advice for aspiring expats and explores the cool personal finance tech out there today.
💬 Question of the Day: How do you align your financial goals with your personal values? Let us know in the comments!
💡 Want more from Dexter? Check out his website at https://www.theportfoliopath.com/
🔔 Don’t forget to subscribe and hit that notification bell for more awesome chats on financial wellness!
(00:00) Money is a tool
(00:45) Intro
(01:35) Achieving a financial milestone
(03:30) Personal finance before getting married
(10:19) Parents impacted your financial mindset
(15:19) Financial misconceptions
(16:55) Making money abroad
(19:12) Get Started today
(25:22) Technology and personal finance
(28:04) What areas of focus do you feel need improvement for yourself right now
(30:10) Renting versus owning?
(35:12) Last advice
(37:56) Final Four Questions
(42:33) More about Dexter
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episode 288
Transcript
>> Anthony Weaver: This episode is sponsored by the
Speaker:portfoliopath.com.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Of course, financial, uh, independence, uh, kind of came
Speaker:into that conversation because the way
Speaker:we view money is that it's a tool to help
Speaker:you achieve whatever kind of life goal that you
Speaker:have. For us, we care about that flexibility. But
Speaker:for other people, maybe it's a certain level
Speaker:of security that they want, or maybe they want to,
Speaker:um, be able to, you know, take on a certain
Speaker:kind of career path. Um, so we
Speaker:see that, uh, for, for us, money is
Speaker:a tool to achieve flexibility, but for other
Speaker:families it may be, uh, or couples, it may be
Speaker:different.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Welcome back, everybody, to another exciting show,
Speaker:the about that Water podcast, where we help the Sam's
Speaker:generation build strong financial habits so that you
Speaker:can spend your money, talk about money, and
Speaker:enjoy your money with conf. Today, I
Speaker:have somebody who's been doing this for quite some
Speaker:time and has achieved so many different things, but
Speaker:also he has achieved
Speaker:fire, which is financial independence and
Speaker:retire early. His name is Dexter
Speaker:Zhang. How you doing today, sir?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Doing well. Thanks for welcoming me onto the show,
Speaker:Anthony. Uh, yeah, just a quick
Speaker:clarification. Is your Coast Fire?
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Oh, coast fire.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Okay, definitely, uh, so one,
Speaker:one milestone, uh, on that journey. Uh,
Speaker:not quite at that, uh, that bigger
Speaker:milestone, but yeah, happy to share more.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Awesome. And one of the cool things
Speaker:about, uh, this particular
Speaker:topic is that,
Speaker:um, it's something that everybody wants to achieve.
Speaker:And so my main question to you
Speaker:has your definition of success has evolved
Speaker:since you've achieved such a great financial
Speaker:milestone.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Great question, Anthony. Um, in the beginning,
Speaker:when I was starting out my career, I was
Speaker:in San Francisco. I
Speaker:was working in tech there.
Speaker:I, um, didn't
Speaker:have a whole lot of money when I was starting out my professional, ah,
Speaker:journey. But I was very
Speaker:motivated and my main priorities
Speaker:at that point was really to
Speaker:learn the fundamentals of personal finance.
Speaker:Uh, so while I was growing my career then I could
Speaker:reinvest a high percentage of
Speaker:my earnings into
Speaker:investments. And I could
Speaker:also, you know, focus on growing my,
Speaker:um, my own skill set and grow my income
Speaker:potential through my career. I think that that part was
Speaker:really my main focus throughout my 20s,
Speaker:now that I'm 33,
Speaker:and, um, a couple years ago,
Speaker:across this coast fire milestone. And that really
Speaker:helped me just
Speaker:be able to take a little bit of a step back, uh,
Speaker:to understand what did I really value
Speaker:in terms of my work and in terms of
Speaker:my lifestyle and how did I want to spend my time,
Speaker:um, more and more importantly. So my
Speaker:journey has evolved a little bit past
Speaker:this milestone because it gave Me a bit more
Speaker:space and flexibility to
Speaker:ask those questions for myself and then answer those questions of,
Speaker:like, how do I want to spend my time? So, uh, that
Speaker:flexibility, uh, is probably the biggest change for
Speaker:me.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Nice. And because,
Speaker:you know, you and your wife
Speaker:have been dealing with this for quite some time, um,
Speaker:how would those conversations happen? Like, when you
Speaker:decided, like, hey, I really want to start
Speaker:dealing and diving into this higher
Speaker:community?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Yeah, that's a good question. So when
Speaker:we first, uh, started
Speaker:dating, you know, six, uh, six years ago, I
Speaker:think personal finance came, uh, up.
Speaker:But it wasn't until maybe like a few
Speaker:years into, uh, that the relationship that we started
Speaker:really talking about this, um,
Speaker:more deeply because we, you
Speaker:know, we're talking about, okay, should we open up, uh,
Speaker:joint bank accounts, shared accounts?
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: I know.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: We started getting deeper into, uh,
Speaker:the rabbit hole for context as well. I'm
Speaker:American. My wife is Australian. Um, we met
Speaker:in Singapore. Uh, so our
Speaker:finances were also a little bit more
Speaker:complicated. And
Speaker:when we start talking about it, then,
Speaker:uh, we had to go down the rabbit hole
Speaker:of, uh, really, uh,
Speaker:planning out what we wanted to do, uh,
Speaker:in terms of finances, uh, because
Speaker:there were
Speaker:more variables when you're bringing
Speaker:together, um, bank accounts from different
Speaker:countries, like investment accounts, uh, from different
Speaker:countries. Um, we started talking
Speaker:about that. And then, of course, financial, um,
Speaker:independence, uh, kind of came into
Speaker:that conversation. Because the way we
Speaker:view money is that it's a tool to help you
Speaker:achieve whatever kind of life goal that you
Speaker:have. For us, we care about that flexibility. But
Speaker:for other people, maybe it's a, ah, certain level
Speaker:of security that they want, or maybe they want to,
Speaker:um, be able to, you know, take on a certain
Speaker:kind of career path. Uh, so
Speaker:we see that, uh, for. For us,
Speaker:money is a tool to achieve flexibility. But for
Speaker:other families, it may be, uh, or couples, it may
Speaker:be different.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That makes sense because, you know,
Speaker:you had a discussion. You all had a discussion right
Speaker:before you guys decided to get married. What
Speaker:would that like? Like, how was that
Speaker:conversation leading up to. To the big day to
Speaker:say, like, hey, um,
Speaker:I. I would like to be with you, like,
Speaker:and. And like, I want to share my money with
Speaker:you. Uh, do you guys do, like, separate accounts
Speaker:or what was. What was those discussions
Speaker:like?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: For sure. I think, uh, the first step of this was
Speaker:we. We were in Singapore during COVID and
Speaker:that's when we started,
Speaker:um, you know, talking about, hey,
Speaker:maybe we should open up, like, a joint accounts for our
Speaker:shared expenses. Right. Uh, because we would buy
Speaker:groceries together. We would, you know, uh,
Speaker:spend on rents, uh, together. Right?
Speaker:And these things were all joint. And previous to that, we were using
Speaker:an application called Splitwise.
Speaker:If uh, you're not already familiar with Splitwise, it's
Speaker:like a, uh, really simple mobile app for you to like, share
Speaker:expenses with your friends or with uh, your loved
Speaker:ones. And it requires you to log
Speaker:every expense. Right. So,
Speaker:uh, I think the where.
Speaker:Where push uh, came to shove moment was like we
Speaker:kind of got tired of having to log all the
Speaker:expenses in split wise.
Speaker:And you know,
Speaker:I'm a little bit embarrassed to say this, but I'm kind of like,
Speaker:uh, like, Like a tracker, right? So I'm like,
Speaker:oh, can we just track everything in split wise? And she's
Speaker:like, it was like a $5, you know, thing, or it was like
Speaker:a two, three dollar coffee. Like, is that really
Speaker:needed? And then we had to like, agree on, okay,
Speaker:maybe like things below $10. You don't have to track it and
Speaker:split wise. But, you know, it just kind of
Speaker:became a hassle. Whereas if we
Speaker:could, uh, create a joint account, then we
Speaker:could, ah, on a monthly basis, just
Speaker:transfer in a certain amount and
Speaker:then, um, and
Speaker:then spend from that joint account and not really
Speaker:think about it, uh, too much. Uh, so
Speaker:that. That was, I think one of the
Speaker:big kind of conversations that we had and
Speaker:then taking a step forward in terms of
Speaker:sharing our finances. And then I think the
Speaker:next kind of big
Speaker:kind of conversations that we had
Speaker:leading up to that as well was like, okay, how do, how do we
Speaker:decide how much we're contributing, you know, to
Speaker:our joint account? And um, I'm
Speaker:sure this, you know, different for every. Every couple that you've,
Speaker:uh, spoken with. But in the beginning, we
Speaker:actually started off with
Speaker:splitting, um, it evenly, like half, half, half.
Speaker:But this kind of became a issue. Like
Speaker:this was a mistake more on my part because
Speaker:we were making different levels of income and at that
Speaker:point in time I was making more than her. And so,
Speaker:uh, it felt like it
Speaker:wasn't a, um, kind of like a fair,
Speaker:uh, system for
Speaker:how we've decided to contribute to this joint account.
Speaker:So yeah, there were some,
Speaker:um, discussions there, heated
Speaker:discussions there. And eventually I realized,
Speaker:okay, we. We can't do this split thing.
Speaker:Um, this isn't working for us.
Speaker:So, uh, we divided
Speaker:the um, like our contributions
Speaker:up based on our income level,
Speaker:right? Like our income divided by
Speaker:like the total household income. That became like our contribution
Speaker:to uh, the. The joint
Speaker:account. And that, uh, worked for us.
Speaker:Yeah. Of course, every couple
Speaker:decides to do it a little bit differently. For us, that
Speaker:worked out. We were happy with,
Speaker:um, that setup.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Okay, so I'll take it. You lost that argument.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Yeah. Uh, yeah. You
Speaker:want to simplify it to that? That's totally cool.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Like, I'm sorry, babe.
Speaker:Uh, uh, yes.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Well, now I think it's a great idea. Now I think it's. Yeah, just
Speaker:a sm. It just makes
Speaker:sense.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Yeah. And you know, that's one of the things that
Speaker:we kind of leave out a lot. It's more than the
Speaker:numbers that kind of drive everything. It's also like,
Speaker:how do we actually want to live with each other and if we want
Speaker:to bring somebody on into that journey?
Speaker:Um, and so obviously she's dealing with
Speaker:her background and you're dealing with your background. Um,
Speaker:when it comes to finances, uh,
Speaker:how has your parents impacted
Speaker:your decision making for
Speaker:finances?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Oh, so I
Speaker:come from. I'm a second generation,
Speaker:um, immigrant to uh, the
Speaker:States. My parents, um, are from
Speaker:China originally. My dad initially, um,
Speaker:moved from, uh, Shanghai to Canada for
Speaker:graduate school with like $300 in his pocket.
Speaker:So I think they came from a bit more
Speaker:of like the scrappy, underdog kind of
Speaker:immigrant, um, you know, journey.
Speaker:And because of that growing up, I think,
Speaker:um, you know, for better, for worse, they. They
Speaker:wanted to be frugal and they wanted to be very
Speaker:mindful about, uh, the spending and
Speaker:expensive side of things. And
Speaker:that's, uh, you know,
Speaker:kind of continued, I think in terms
Speaker:of how they, uh,
Speaker:they perceive money or their relationship with money.
Speaker:Things have changed a little bit over time now that
Speaker:they're retired, they're, you know, going to resorts
Speaker:in Mexico and you know, spending on travel
Speaker:with friends. So they are definitely spending
Speaker:on what they're enjoying a whole lot more.
Speaker:But I think in terms of, um,
Speaker:how that has evolved, their relationship
Speaker:with me is like, they obviously want the best for
Speaker:me and they care
Speaker:about, uh, how,
Speaker:uh, me and my wife, how we're thinking about personal
Speaker:finances and having a plan in place
Speaker:and um, making sure
Speaker:that, you know, um, we're going to
Speaker:be taken care of, uh, while we're going to be able to take care of ourselves.
Speaker:Um, I think there are. Fortunately,
Speaker:you know, when it comes to the relationship with
Speaker:me and my parents, I, um, don't think there's a
Speaker:whole lot of expectation, um,
Speaker:necessarily around,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:got to take care of their retirement or the, you know, there's not
Speaker:that expectation, uh, for sure.
Speaker:Would they appreciate me helping out?
Speaker:Yes, um, I'm sure they would.
Speaker:Uh, but I do feel,
Speaker:uh, fortunate in that, you know, they have
Speaker:explicitly at least, at least said, like, don't worry
Speaker:about us, uh, we got the
Speaker:retirement covered. Uh, so far.
Speaker:Um, so that, that's, uh, been a
Speaker:conversation at least we've had.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: And that's really good that you guys are having that open
Speaker:discussion, because when it comes to
Speaker:retirement, a lot of the times the parents are
Speaker:usually hesitant on even opening up about
Speaker:their finances. Um, how did you all,
Speaker:ah, got to that so comfortable talking
Speaker:about it. Like, uh, what, how did you even start that
Speaker:conversation?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Well, to be candid, we haven't talked about
Speaker:like, you know, super detailed, uh,
Speaker:you know, they haven't shared like, their financial plan or,
Speaker:uh, or anything like that. But
Speaker:they did share kind of,
Speaker:um, how they're feeling about
Speaker:their finances, how they were feeling about their plan,
Speaker:um, where do they feel comfortable
Speaker:and where they don't. Uh, so I
Speaker:think it was a
Speaker:evolution. When I first
Speaker:started out working
Speaker:and kind of taking care of my own career growth
Speaker:and finances.
Speaker:My parents started sharing a little bit more about
Speaker:their own journey and their
Speaker:progress in personal finances and how they've
Speaker:thought about it. Uh, but it probably wasn't until
Speaker:more recently, you know, now
Speaker:that my wife and I are married and now that
Speaker:my parents are retired, that we're both kind of like in a stage
Speaker:of life where,
Speaker:um, they're more openly
Speaker:sharing, you know, m, what, what they're
Speaker:planning for in the future because they understand, like, we're trying to make our
Speaker:plans as well, and they don't want to feel
Speaker:like they're in the way of any of those plants.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Nice. Okay.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Yeah. So I think that's probably the
Speaker:main trigger. Um,
Speaker:uh, more and more. Yeah, they, they, they want us to
Speaker:feel like we have our own level of
Speaker:independence and ability to
Speaker:take, um, control of our life decisions.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That makes sense because you're focusing
Speaker:on others, helping them out with their money
Speaker:path. And I'm always curious how it is when it
Speaker:comes to family and one of those things. Family
Speaker:members always look at you like, okay, well, here you
Speaker:go talking about money again. Like, can we talk about something
Speaker:else?
Speaker:Like, so, uh, uh, so what
Speaker:are the biggest misconceptions that people have about
Speaker:aligning their finances with their values?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Oh, um, biggest
Speaker:misconceptions for
Speaker:me, um, I, I, I would say that
Speaker:a lot of people that I see
Speaker:when they want to talk about money, it's
Speaker:really a,
Speaker:um, more black and white kind of kind of measure. Right?
Speaker:It's like, oh, you have either a lot of money or you
Speaker:don't. And that's Kind of the perception
Speaker:of talking about money and personal
Speaker:finances. But
Speaker:um, I think what's really underrated
Speaker:is the self awareness of what
Speaker:you value. Right.
Speaker:And ultimately whatever you spend on is just
Speaker:a reflection of whatever you value.
Speaker:But reflecting on your values
Speaker:takes a lot of work. It actually takes some time,
Speaker:takes some effort. Maybe that looks like doing some
Speaker:reflection. Maybe that looks like trying out different
Speaker:career paths. It's different for everyone.
Speaker:But I think that exercise of
Speaker:continuing to iterate, like your
Speaker:own understanding of your values is kind of like
Speaker:this foundational piece that then you
Speaker:can put um,
Speaker:like whatever kind of personal finance lesson on top of that.
Speaker:Kind of like a building block. Um, and
Speaker:money is that lens. Right. That your, your
Speaker:values really looks through.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Nice.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Okay.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That's a good way of doing it and I appreciate you sharing
Speaker:that because you know, some of our money
Speaker:values actually come from when we're children. And I'm
Speaker:glad that you were able to open up about
Speaker:your upbringing during that process.
Speaker:Um, so you ultimately come up with
Speaker:this cool product called like Money
Speaker:Abroad. What is it?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Definitely Money Abroad started off
Speaker:as a money newsletter
Speaker:for expats or people living abroad. And that was a
Speaker:reflection of my own personal um,
Speaker:experiences. Uh, moving from
Speaker:the US to uh, Singapore
Speaker:after. Yeah, pretty pretty much like
Speaker:most of my adult life. Um, up
Speaker:to that point I was, I was
Speaker:20. 28.
Speaker:Yeah, 28 or so. Uh, when I made that
Speaker:move. And what
Speaker:that's really showed me
Speaker:was like oh, wow, money kind of gets
Speaker:complicated when you're overseas. And that's how I initially
Speaker:started that newsletter. But over
Speaker:time it has evolved, uh, a little bit,
Speaker:has attracted people who are also non, non ah,
Speaker:expats. But they're excited
Speaker:about uh, carving out a,
Speaker:um, way to live on their own terms.
Speaker:Tends to be people who are
Speaker:maybe you know,
Speaker:seven to 15 years of um,
Speaker:experience into their careers and they're trying
Speaker:to figure out, okay, what next? Um,
Speaker:after the point of maybe
Speaker:you're thinking about starting a family or maybe
Speaker:you're realizing that you're
Speaker:not um, interested in walking the same career path
Speaker:for too much longer, then it's like
Speaker:okay, what next can you do? Um, and
Speaker:that's why I talk about Coast Fire as one of these
Speaker:topics, uh, and talk about portfolio
Speaker:careers and kind of introduce different
Speaker:alternatives, uh, for people in the
Speaker:newsletter that makes sense.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Especially what's going on today. And
Speaker:as a recent event, a lot of people are looking to become
Speaker:expats.
Speaker:What is the, I guess you could say what are
Speaker:the, the main steps that somebody can
Speaker:do right now to kind of prepare
Speaker:themselves if they thinking about going abroad or living
Speaker:abroad.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Totally. I think the biggest
Speaker:blocker for a lot of people is
Speaker:understanding.
Speaker:Um, you know, if. If
Speaker:you're just an individual at this point,
Speaker:uh, then you just got to think about your own
Speaker:career path. And then you got to figure out, like, okay, how
Speaker:does your career path translates to
Speaker:something overseas? Right.
Speaker:And then if you have another, uh, if you have a
Speaker:partner, then, uh, that means also translating, like,
Speaker:what they're doing career wise into
Speaker:something overseas. And finding
Speaker:kind of the intersection of that can be a
Speaker:little bit, uh, can be a little bit tricky if you
Speaker:have, uh, specific kind of career
Speaker:goals. However, if you're more
Speaker:flexible or if you're fortunate and there's
Speaker:like, certain cities that just like, really map really well
Speaker:with what you're trying to do, then
Speaker:that can work out, like, that can be feasible. An
Speaker:example of this would be for, uh, me. I'm in
Speaker:Mexico City now, but before we were in
Speaker:Singapore, and, uh, that was a great
Speaker:intersection of. My wife is Australian. A lot of
Speaker:Australians moved to Singapore for career opportunities. Anyways,
Speaker:thanks. Um, so that was
Speaker:a, you know, good next step
Speaker:for, for her. And then for me, I
Speaker:was interested in living in Southeast, uh,
Speaker:Asia. And there were, you know, uh, in
Speaker:terms of my industry, there were a lot of opportunities
Speaker:in terms of the tech industry at the time, um, in
Speaker:Singapore. So there was that kind
Speaker:of happy intersection for us that happened
Speaker:there. Uh, for others, it might be, uh, different. I
Speaker:think I saw you had, uh, Stephanie on your podcast.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. Um, we met at fincon as
Speaker:well, and Stephanie's a great example of,
Speaker:you know, um, the Portugal expat community and,
Speaker:you know, lifestyle in
Speaker:Portugal kind of being a match for
Speaker:what her and husband, um, were
Speaker:looking for.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Nice. Because, I mean, we try
Speaker:to figure out, like, how do we actually make money?
Speaker:You know, when you're.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Exactly.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: And exactly. Do you teach
Speaker:somebody, um, English or
Speaker:usually. That's usually the one that everybody go to. And I'm
Speaker:like, okay, do something.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that's. That tends to be
Speaker:like a recent college grad, maybe 22 or
Speaker:something. Great, great,
Speaker:great. You know, starting point for a lot of
Speaker:people. Um, definitely not knocking
Speaker:English teachers, uh, you know, in South Korea or
Speaker:something. I think it's really cool. Um, but, yeah,
Speaker:probably not, like, if you're. If you have a family, if you're,
Speaker:you know, in your 30s or, uh, 40s,
Speaker:looking to make a transition. So
Speaker:definitely, you know, figuring out how you're going
Speaker:to make money like the career path, seeing if your career path
Speaker:can continue to extend overseas. I think it's
Speaker:quite important. Um, and if
Speaker:you can take a look at your particular industry
Speaker:and see like are there any cities where your industry is
Speaker:pretty prominent then you
Speaker:might find some m. Happy
Speaker:overlaps. So I know for example in
Speaker:terms of um, you know the tech industry,
Speaker:because I've been in this industry for
Speaker:a decade, is that there's several global
Speaker:cities um, that now
Speaker:have uh, thriving
Speaker:kind of tech ecosystems and they want
Speaker:to invest further into it. So
Speaker:places like uh, London,
Speaker:um, is one example that is I've
Speaker:known several um,
Speaker:people working in the tech industries either as
Speaker:professionals or as founders moving there
Speaker:in Asia. Of course Singapore is uh, an
Speaker:example of that. Ah so those
Speaker:are some um, potential examples. Um
Speaker:Mexico City as well there are
Speaker:um, as a hub for Latin
Speaker:America it's becoming
Speaker:more um, attractive for
Speaker:tech, uh, companies kind of like base their operations
Speaker:there, uh, uh, for the Spanish speaking part of
Speaker:Latin America. So those are some examples
Speaker:of how uh,
Speaker:when you take a look at your industry you might find like a few
Speaker:cities that are quite good for your
Speaker:industry and then um, you can
Speaker:maybe visit, you know, talk to some people, get a sense on
Speaker:the ground as well. So for
Speaker:example when um, my wife and
Speaker:I were considering moving to Singapore, I had already visited
Speaker:before and then I spent some time networking
Speaker:like I did a couple trips in
Speaker:addition just to network and
Speaker:meet people, uh, working in an
Speaker:industry that I want to work in.
Speaker:And uh, I learned a lot from
Speaker:those conversations because the reality is
Speaker:like most of the time the information you
Speaker:see on the Internet is like totally out of date or it's just not
Speaker:always like an accurate reflection of what's happening
Speaker:um, on the ground. So uh,
Speaker:actually going, meeting people, having conversations,
Speaker:um, or if you can't visit, you know, having at
Speaker:least doing outreach to uh,
Speaker:to potential ah, people are kind of in
Speaker:a similar role in your target
Speaker:city. Or maybe a super connector, like someone who
Speaker:is really um, like ah, like a community
Speaker:manager or a community leader. Right. Um, in, in
Speaker:that city. I think it's a great person to, to connect
Speaker:with and that can, that can
Speaker:be helpful to get some feedback on um, how
Speaker:is like the job market doing. What are the
Speaker:opportunities for someone like with a, with a background
Speaker:like me? Those kind of questions.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Yeah, and you've been doing,
Speaker:I say yes, traveling is awesome
Speaker:but also you gotta get a means to, to why you want to
Speaker:travel, um, but also in your
Speaker:journey you've done so much in
Speaker:tech. Where do you see the
Speaker:tech industry when it comes to financial
Speaker:tech that's going to help out the people, the everyday person
Speaker:that's really pinching pennies right now.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Definitely. So I think on
Speaker:one hand, uh, you know, you're
Speaker:seeing obviously like more
Speaker:uh, technologies. Uh, technology
Speaker:is always changing. Right. And because of that the
Speaker:tools that we have are always changing.
Speaker:Uh, personal finance is
Speaker:one kind of area
Speaker:where those tools, uh, change really rapidly. They're
Speaker:getting so much easier to use from a consumer
Speaker:standpoint. I think in terms of managing
Speaker:finances, 15 years ago,
Speaker:10 plus years ago, I think all
Speaker:I can really think of using at that point in
Speaker:time was mint. But now there's like,
Speaker:you know, so, so many different options. Right. So it's
Speaker:I think a great time for consumers
Speaker:of these tools. So
Speaker:a lot of these tools are pretty low costs as
Speaker:well. Uh, or like the, the cost
Speaker:of using these personal finance tools are also
Speaker:getting um, less and
Speaker:less. And,
Speaker:and it's not just the tools for managing finances. It's
Speaker:also the um,
Speaker:investment tools, the uh,
Speaker:funds for investments. Uh, so
Speaker:example this would be like Vanguard is continuing to reduce their,
Speaker:their fees. I think they just announced they reduced their fees
Speaker:again, um, right. Over time. And
Speaker:I think that's something that anyone can take
Speaker:advantage of. Right. Uh, those, those
Speaker:um, reduced fee kind of opportunities for
Speaker:investments.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That's good. Um, because I, I just want people to know.
Speaker:Well, I want the person that's listening right now to know that
Speaker:you do have what it takes. I mean it's right there at your
Speaker:fingertips. Just gotta press the button.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Exactly, exactly. So the tool, the tools are there,
Speaker:uh, the, you know,
Speaker:investments are there with low fees
Speaker:are there. And yeah, it's
Speaker:really, it's really um, up to you
Speaker:to you know, do, do some light research on
Speaker:like what, what it is, you know, fits your particular
Speaker:goals. But they're definitely accessible,
Speaker:um, at this point in time.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Yeah.
Speaker:So this is about you though. Like what areas
Speaker:of focus that you feel
Speaker:needs the most improvement for yourself?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Oh, good. Uh, question.
Speaker:So I think in terms of,
Speaker:um, in terms of,
Speaker:you know, life stage, my wife and I
Speaker:are kind of at the stage where, you know, we don't have kids yet. We
Speaker:haven't really thought of,
Speaker:uh, you know, plan too far ahead, of
Speaker:course, but we do want to like, be financially
Speaker:prepared. Uh. Right. Like
Speaker:if and when we do have kids, uh, then
Speaker:don't want to be totally like blindsided by all
Speaker:that. And then I think the other thing.
Speaker:Exactly. Uh, and then I think the other thing is just figuring
Speaker:out like, you know, because she's Australian, I'm
Speaker:American, we're living in Mexico City.
Speaker:The question we always get is like, where are you going to end up?
Speaker:You know, where you were going to,
Speaker:uh, put roots? Like that kind of question.
Speaker:And. Well, I think it's a very
Speaker:valid question. Uh, because
Speaker:of our background, I
Speaker:think we're a bit more flexible in terms of, in terms of
Speaker:location and um, in terms
Speaker:of the lifestyle that comes with that. Uh, but
Speaker:I think that is something we
Speaker:want uh, to figure out at least on a year
Speaker:by year, like a shorter time frame kind of horizon.
Speaker:Maybe let's say next two to three years. Okay. Like this,
Speaker:this kind of chunk of time. Um,
Speaker:whereas some people want to plan out much longer. It's like,
Speaker:okay, next, like 20 years, like we want to be here.
Speaker:Right. Um,
Speaker:so those areas, the
Speaker:family planning and also
Speaker:planning, um, out, okay, location wise, where,
Speaker:where do we want to like,
Speaker:uh, let's say, uh,
Speaker:open up accounts or figure out our cost of living? Like
Speaker:those, those kind of questions are impacted
Speaker:by where we're going to be for the
Speaker:next two or three years.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That makes sense.
Speaker:So that brings up the question then, how are
Speaker:you feeling about renting versus owning?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Great question.
Speaker:So I'm going to be own bias because
Speaker:my life has been overseas
Speaker:and definitely been shaped
Speaker:by the
Speaker:desire for flexibility and
Speaker:mobility. So while I
Speaker:think earlier in my career I
Speaker:was interested in potentially uh,
Speaker:buying at, at that stage,
Speaker:especially I think in the middle 2000 and tens, it seemed
Speaker:to make a lot of sense or I had a lot of
Speaker:peers, like friends, colleagues
Speaker:signing to buy at that um, point in time. Uh,
Speaker:but for me I realized, okay, well, if I'm
Speaker:gonna try this moving abroad thing,
Speaker:which, you know, first started off as a travel sabbatical and then
Speaker:move and then actually moving overseas after I realized like,
Speaker:oh, this is actually kind of nice, I, I like this.
Speaker:Then I discovered, well, it might
Speaker:not be totally worth it, right. From
Speaker:a financial perspective and from a lifestyle
Speaker:perspective if I'm not living in that
Speaker:home, so I'm not really using it and I have to rent it out.
Speaker:Um, but then I have to also
Speaker:consider the operational pieces of it
Speaker:putting uh, the sweat of figuring out what
Speaker:happens when things go wrong, who's going to deal with it,
Speaker:how to get a property manager in that area, that kind
Speaker:of thing. So
Speaker:um, long story short, I am,
Speaker:I, I prefer renting. And
Speaker:the main, yeah, the main thing for me and
Speaker:my wife is that ah, ah, Flexibility. So
Speaker:Kenley, I mean, my wife also has, ah, um,
Speaker:uh, property in Australia. But even
Speaker:still, uh, that was like, from before we
Speaker:got married. And um, I don't think
Speaker:we're totally tied to the
Speaker:idea of like, keeping it for forever or anything like that.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Hey, I mean, this is why it's the features. I like having this
Speaker:open discussion because a lot of people are
Speaker:at that point now. It's like, hey, we have our
Speaker:foundation nice and solid. So
Speaker:what now? And you're a perfect
Speaker:example of like, hey, we don't know what's going to happen
Speaker:next, but at least within the next two years there'll be something.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Exactly, exactly. We, yeah, we, we do consider
Speaker:that, that downside risk. And
Speaker:what we want to avoid is
Speaker:a situation where, let's
Speaker:say, oh, we have to move because,
Speaker:uh, our, our parents are, you know, not
Speaker:feeling well. That that's a real possibility. Um,
Speaker:well, they're healthy now, of course, but, you know, just,
Speaker:just in case. And in that
Speaker:scenario, then if we had a
Speaker:property that we had
Speaker:purchased and we had the mortgage and the loan
Speaker:payments, um,
Speaker:that would probably restrict our mobility and restrict
Speaker:our flexibility. Unless if we like, rent it out. But then we have
Speaker:to then go through the whole process of,
Speaker:um, getting property manager, like, figuring
Speaker:out the operational, operational, uh, uh, side of
Speaker:it. So that's what we wanted
Speaker:to avoid and give ourselves a bit more
Speaker:breathing room.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Yeah. And considering you're selling your 30s,
Speaker:which is a great way to kind of like you
Speaker:starting to slow down a little bit from when in your 20s, you
Speaker:were just all over the place. Uh, and it's a good way to do
Speaker:it. I mean, I wouldn't mind if. I would
Speaker:say I'm not sure how this show will
Speaker:evolve, but if the show was still here in 10
Speaker:years, I would love to actually have you back on and be like, you know,
Speaker:we did wind up doing all the things.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: I love that. Yeah, that would be fantastic. And
Speaker:I don't know if you've done this for, uh,
Speaker:previous, uh, podcast guests, but I think that's a great idea just
Speaker:to, uh, show like, hey, we talked about these topics. Let's
Speaker:take a look, you know, few years later, what actually
Speaker:happens in their life?
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Well, I can tell you a lot of the people that I interviewed during my
Speaker:first season, they no longer have that business. And I
Speaker:can't even find them on social. So
Speaker:they, uh, dismantled. So it's very
Speaker:few of them has continued on. And my podcast
Speaker:is only coming up on five years. So
Speaker:it's wow to See, that's really interesting.
Speaker:Yeah. And I try to send them emails but it's good like you
Speaker:know, that uh, the 404 error. And I'm
Speaker:like, I at least wanted to at least come back
Speaker:on to at least say what happened.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: But
Speaker:ah, that would be a
Speaker:really great episode if you do manage to get them
Speaker:back on. Maybe we'll see them at
Speaker:fincon and I, I can help.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Maybe.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Um, so is there anything that you want to
Speaker:leave the audience with before we dive into the final four questions?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: I m. Think uh, just to
Speaker:summarize what we had uh, talked about a little
Speaker:bit earlier, I want to emphasize
Speaker:that it really helped, uh, me and my wife
Speaker:did the exercise to figure out, you
Speaker:know, what we viewed as our top values.
Speaker:And fortunately a lot of them were aligned, uh,
Speaker:which is great. And that really helped us
Speaker:get clarity on how do
Speaker:we, how do we approach like work more intentionally, how
Speaker:do we approach money, uh, more
Speaker:intentionally, uh, and prioritize,
Speaker:you know, how, how we want to save and invest,
Speaker:uh, for, for different things. An example of this is like
Speaker:so when my wife and I got married, we
Speaker:had a couple smaller banquets in
Speaker:uh, Singapore, in Sydney and in Shanghai
Speaker:with our family members and some extended family
Speaker:and um, you know, a few friends here,
Speaker:here and there. But we didn't do like a really, really big
Speaker:wedding because uh, neither of
Speaker:us really prioritized that as like, oh,
Speaker:we really, really want to have like a huge wedding
Speaker:celebration. I mean in the future we would like to maybe
Speaker:do like a uh, do like an anniversary
Speaker:party with a group of friends and that would be really fun.
Speaker:Um, but instead what we did
Speaker:with, you know, what we would have spent on a
Speaker:wedding, we put it put away for a
Speaker:honeymoon. So later, you know, we'll take
Speaker:a really nice honeymoon to do like a safari in Tanzania
Speaker:and like go to Hawaii and like that. That
Speaker:doesn't really put any pressure on us financially because we
Speaker:already had allocated that, um, and
Speaker:we're pretty excited for it and looking forward
Speaker:to making that happen. But that required
Speaker:us to make some trade offs right in terms
Speaker:of um, what it is we wanted. And
Speaker:that started with the values.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That is awesome that you guys were on the same page with
Speaker:that and hopefully that
Speaker:uh, the person that's listening is really
Speaker:taking note on.
Speaker:Hey, it doesn't have to be done all at once.
Speaker:You can have everything but just not at the same time.
Speaker:You'll get it.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Exactly, exactly. Well
Speaker:said. Yeah, we can do a party,
Speaker:maybe not, you know, for
Speaker:the wedding itself, but Maybe in, like, a few years, do an
Speaker:anniversary party, Something like that.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Yeah. Well, you ready for the final four
Speaker:questions?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Yeah, let's do it, Anthony. Let it rip.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: All right,
Speaker:next. They're ready.
Speaker:So, number one, um, what does
Speaker:wealth mean to you?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Wealth? For me?
Speaker:Yeah. It used to traditionally mean, like, just having tons of money,
Speaker:but now, uh, the older I get
Speaker:and maybe, you know, 10 years later when,
Speaker:uh, we revisit this, it'll sound different. Is that
Speaker:in my 30s, it really is about flexibility. It's. It's about
Speaker:giving me some control over my time
Speaker:and, uh, flexibility and not
Speaker:having to worry, uh, too much about,
Speaker:uh, about how I'm spending money.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Perfect. Number two, what
Speaker:was your worst money mistake?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: For me, you know, I
Speaker:started investing when I think I was
Speaker:18, and I just got into college, and I opened
Speaker:up a brokerage at E Trade, and
Speaker:I just picked a couple stocks and, you know,
Speaker:started started, um, investing that
Speaker:way. And then it wasn't until, like, maybe a couple years
Speaker:later, I learned about index funds. And I was like,
Speaker:oh, this is a much smarter way, uh,
Speaker:to. To do this. And I thought that
Speaker:afterwards I kind of figured it out. I was like,
Speaker:oh, well, I just invest in boring index
Speaker:funds. And that's, like, pretty simple. But what I didn't
Speaker:expect is how, uh, emotional investing
Speaker:is. And inevitably, you know,
Speaker:over the past, uh, like
Speaker:12 years or so since then, I've still,
Speaker:like, felt the. Felt the attraction of,
Speaker:like, oh, maybe it's, like, speculating on, um,
Speaker:certain stocks. Or maybe. Maybe it's like,
Speaker:oh, crypto bull run.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Why.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Why are all my friends talking about it? Maybe. Maybe I should,
Speaker:like, you know,
Speaker:put more than I should into. Into some of that.
Speaker:Um, so I think speculation is
Speaker:still the worst money mistake, but
Speaker:it's also one that I realized, like, it
Speaker:can keep hap. Like, it can keep coming up
Speaker:in different forms or shapes.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That is awesome. Uh, that you look. You do
Speaker:a lot of reflection on yourself. It seems like you
Speaker:do almost like an annual, at least a monthly reflection on
Speaker:yourself just based on your response.
Speaker:Wish I had that intuition when I was your age.
Speaker:Number, uh, three. Is there a book that
Speaker:inspired your journey or changed your perspective?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: All right, so the book that,
Speaker:um, really inspired my, uh, expat journey
Speaker:and how I thought about personal finances, uh, as
Speaker:an expat is one called Millionaire Expat. It's by
Speaker:Andrew Halen, and he built a
Speaker:million dollar plus investment portfolio even as a school
Speaker:teacher overseas. So I thought that was really cool.
Speaker:Um, and I liked his personal Journey
Speaker:of how he learned about investing by investing
Speaker:on the side and how
Speaker:he also talks a lot about, like, as an American, when you're
Speaker:overseas, there's like, certain tax implications or a lot
Speaker:of questions that come up. It's like, how do I invest
Speaker:while overseas? Should I use my home brokerage? Should
Speaker:I use a brokerage in, uh, this new country?
Speaker:And all those nitty gritty questions
Speaker:he dives into. So if you're
Speaker:someone who is looking to,
Speaker:uh, move overseas or kind of wants to learn more about
Speaker:what investing is like when, uh, when
Speaker:that's your life situation, then Millionaire
Speaker:Expat is a potentially good book for
Speaker:you.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Awesome. Number four,
Speaker:what is your favorite dish to make?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Uh, recently my wife and I bought a instant
Speaker:pot. That's like a nine. Nine in one instant
Speaker:pot. The ninja. Uh,
Speaker:you're nodding your head. Maybe you know it, but air
Speaker:fryer in it. Okay. Air fryer. Uh,
Speaker:saute. It's got everything. Anyways,
Speaker:uh, one of our, yeah, favorite things to make,
Speaker:uh, with it is, uh, a chili. It's like a 20,
Speaker:20 minute chili. You know, you just throw in, um,
Speaker:you know, all the, uh, all the minced meat.
Speaker:Uh, you know, we use beef here, and then
Speaker:you can saute it in the same pot that you later.
Speaker:Then, uh, use the pressure cooker to, uh, make the chili
Speaker:all in 20 minutes. And I, I feel like
Speaker:it's. It's just the best because you can do it
Speaker:on Sunday night, and then you get pretty much your
Speaker:meals for the rest of the week.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: That's amazing. All right. I might have to, um.
Speaker:I had to try that out one day.
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Yeah, thanks for saying
Speaker:it.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Uh, so this is the last question of the show, which is
Speaker:where could people find out more about you?
Speaker:>> Dexter Zhang: Absolutely. You can go to
Speaker:moneyabroad, uh, co,
Speaker:and there you can, uh, find all
Speaker:my contact information and, uh,
Speaker:more information about what I'm working on.
Speaker:>> Anthony Weaver: Right. Thank you so much, Dexter, for all of
Speaker:your information, all of your personal
Speaker:stories. I know we didn't dive into all the businesses and
Speaker:everything like that. Y'all can go to the other platforms that he's been
Speaker:on to talk about that fun stuff, but we are here to
Speaker:learn more about the man behind all of
Speaker:the cool things that you've been doing. Um, and I just want
Speaker:to congratulate you on all of the things that you've been
Speaker:doing, uh, especially when it comes to
Speaker:helping people out with personal finance. And as you heard,
Speaker:everybody, like, you have what it takes. You
Speaker:just got to really take time out to do your research
Speaker:and really understand what it is that you want out of life
Speaker:so that you can align your finances for it.
Speaker:So I wish you all the best if you need to. If you
Speaker:didn't get anything out of this one, but you think somebody else would listen
Speaker:to this, definitely slide it on over to, um, them,
Speaker:because they could actually help them out as well.
Speaker:So thank you so much. Y'all have a great
Speaker:day. We out.
